Jubilee Guys

[robc]

Alright, yall have bad mouthed me long enough! [:|] Just kidding! I was there and did get an audition! I have no skills in knowing what I'm listening to or for but I (as I stated above) thoroughly enjoyed sitting there listening and could have sat all day. They were very nice and clean to listen to and not in your face loud. There was a little bit of noise when the room was completely quiet but as soon as the music started the hiss disappeared. It was so low that it just wasn't an issue at all. I would have expected a speaker of that size to be a little muddy, not crisp, but that was not the case at all. The bass was very sharp/precise and the vocals very clear! The amps were wayyy cool and very interesting as well. Who knew you had to program an amp? I'll be happy to drive back up and give another listen when ever you all want me to give another speaker review, southern style!

Thanks again Michael, I enjoyed meeting you and everyone else this past weekend and look forward to seeing everyone again in the near future.

[BLSamuel]

I think I listened to 1 jazz LP side along with Brian while we were chatting about his trying a trachhorn and different crossover in his speakers and couldn't hear a difference. So we were really using the Jubilees for background music. That said, it was very good background music but as we were talking I didn't really listen too closely. They did sound very good even at such a low level. And yes, we noticed the small amount of hiss but only I think when the music wasn't playing and we were real close to one of the speakers.

So I guess I've not yet heard a proper demo if you will but what little I heard them they sounded very good. Very clear effortless sound. I guess it would even qualify as amazing sound quality considering how low a level we were listening.

I thought about putting on some music to fall asleep to as I crashed in the gallery room with the Jubilees but seemed way overkill and probably would've been up later though it did occure to me that there was a RoomGroove in the next room.

Maybe I can have a more proper audition another time...

[colterphoto1]

Yeah I was wondering if you guys were going to shut up long enough to hear the speakers LOL. I saw that Brian did a good job of picking a couple selections from my Chicago Jazz purchase and was hoping you guys gave them a solid listen. Stop by any time you're in town Ben- you can put on the music of your choice and kick back.

M

[Deang]

Is it just me, or do you look terminally pissed off in that new avatar.

[dtel]

Is it just me, or do you look terminally pissed off in that new avatar.

He kind of looks like he just found out Indianapolis just passed a law that no speakers can be over 75 pounds

[colterphoto1]

I am pretty terminally pissed off. You're just now noticing?

[Coytee]

Dean doesn't have the pinkest pillow in the bedroom.... [^o)]

[Deang]

You have an unhealthy fixation with pink pillows. I have medication that can help you.

[Coytee]

Perhaps you've seen some of the pictures of my wifes decorations around here... I can't escape it.... it's finally rubbing off on me....

pink pillows

floral patterns

Marie Osmond

fresh cut flowers

Jubilees

help me......

[Deang]

I just realized my pills are pink, I think they'll work for you.

[dtel]

I can't escape it.... it's finally rubbing off on me....

Well she is supposed to, she is your wife after all ! [:$]

[whatever55]

Here's one....

For Jubilee's how close is too close as far as distance between and form a listening position ?

Say for 12' away how far apart should they be..... For a sarting position I know "whatever sounds good to you"

[Islander]

The general rule for speaker placement is to have the speakers as far apart as you're sitting from them, so if you're 12' away, they should be 12' apart. That will form a 60 degree angle from where you're sitting.

Klipsch Heritage speakers can be a bit further apart, or separated by more than 60 degrees, without having a hole in the middle of the sound stage, so that adds a bit of flexibility in positioning.

Some Jubilee owners may post their experiences with speaker direction, but in most cases you'll want the speakers to face directly toward the listening position.

[Coytee]

For Jubilee's how close is too close as far as distance between and form a listening position ?

Say for 12' away how far apart should they be..... For a sarting position I know "whatever sounds good to you"

Dean might be the best person to opine here as I think he might have had his as close as anyone if not more. Mine are in corners that are 16' apart. I listen more often off to the side verses in the sweet spot. Hopefully, that reality will change some once I get them moved downstairs. I've never measured my distance to the speakers but I'd speculate it to be 13 feet?

If you are using your active and it has some delay, it might not matter how close (other than their shear volume ability)

Mine sound 100% better in the same room, same corner that I had my Khorns in. I think the biggest reason they sound better is they're time aligned and the sound coming from them is coherent much closer/faster than the sound emitting from my old Khorns (ALK extreme slope networks). I think my Khorns needed more time, therefore distance for the sound to meld into a singular wave front and that's why they sounded noticably better when standing 30' away from them. They sounded great while in the room with them but they were simply in a higher plane when I was 30' away.

This disparity of sound quality does NOT exist for me with the Jubilees. They sound just as good while sitting in the same room with them as they do when I go to that 30' spot.

Since you are mixing a passive with outboard eq, I don't know how much control you have over your output as compared to others who are using a Dx38 or even an Xti solution.

In the end...I guess it comes down to "whatever sounds good to you" [] [6]

[Chris A]

...Mine sound 100% better in the same room, same corner that I had my Khorns in. I think the biggest reason they sound better is they're time aligned and the sound coming from them is coherent much closer/faster than the sound emitting from my old Khorns (ALK extreme slope networks)...This disparity of sound quality does NOT exist for me with the Jubilees. They sound just as good while sitting in the same room with them as they do when I go to that 30' spot.

I think one thing needs to be pointed out:

I believe that the K402 horn (...the large one on top...) is a dramatic improvement over the Khorn midrange and tweeter in terms of "constant loudness off-axis". This is why I believe the Jub doesn't really care as much where you are standing or sitting in the room.

One guy that came over for a listen a while back--a guy that has really good Khorns at home--said, "it's like an eye that follows you around the room..." He thereafter departed the premises, looking rather introspective (I'll let your imagination take it from there.)

Chris

[Deang]

I sat 13 feet back, sounded pretty good.

Don't forget, the Jubilee (like the Klipschorn), is really two horns. You need to be at least 12 feet back for the bass to sum properly.

[Chris A]

Okay,

I tried to wheedle the source of that "x"-feet-back statement out of Bentz a while back (the line went dead).

It's not that I disagree with you, but is that "12 feet" your experience, or did you read that somewhere?

Chris

[mikebse2a3]

My Jubs/K402 are setup on a wall that is approximately 11.5ft wide and slightly out of the corners. They are rotated so that the main axis crosses slightly in front of my listening position which is about 9ft from the front of the speaker and they sound very well balanced tonally and focused with very natural sized images for vocals and many instruments on good recordings. As far as a sense of reproduction of soundstage scale my experience has been that large and small spreads have their positive and negatives depending on the recordings. Of course I use active crossovers with steep slopes and time alignment so this gives as close to ideal frequency and polar response through the crossover region considering we still have two sources separated in the vertical plane so the speaker is very well behaved and if setup correctly my perception is of a single reproducer and in no way does it sound like the lows and highs come from different horns but is instead very seamless. One thing that I have noticed over time is you will know when the loudspeakers/room/listener location are all optimized because the loudspeakers are perceived as silent and disappear as the sources of sound and you will have excellent dynamics, tonality and imaging on good recordings. I use diffusion, bass traps and electronic compensation(for two problem room modes) to create an acoustically balanced room/listener location which gives me great pleasure when I listen to recordings on this system.

One thing to keep in mind when choosing a listening position with the Khorn especially(due to it needing to be snug in the corner unless built like the 60th anniversary Khorn or Jubilee is that the LF horns have (due in large part to their bifurcated mouths design ie: two sources spaced apart in the horizontal plane) horizontal polars that begin by 250Hz to narrow with nulls developing 25 to 30 degrees off axis as frequency increases. So being able to rotate the LF horn in it's corner can be of some benefit in the LF horns upper frequency range.

A second thing to be aware of when choosing a listening position in any rectangular shaped average sized home listening room is that the middle of the room will almost always produce the weakest LF performance. In a rectangular room(assuming reasonable ratios) the back 3rd of the room is in my experience the best place to locate your listening position.

A third thing about most Khorn and Jubilee installs is the main reasons best performance in rectangular rooms of reasonable ratios(especially when these rooms are untreated acoustically) mostly happens when they are installed on the long wall IMHO is the listening position often falls in the last 3rd of the room and close to the back wall which gives a very beneficial amount of room gain at the listener's location to the perceived low-end performance of the system while also beneficially delaying the image smearing and tonal unbalances from untreated sidewall reflections in most average untreated listening rooms. In the case of the Khorn also the long wall will place your listening position more on axis of the HF horns which is very important if you can't rotate them like the 60th Anniversary Khorn would allow. One other word on sidewall treatment is that in my experience when using Khorns and Jub/K402 is that I've never been happy using absorption at these points because it can create it's own tonal colorations, destroys the sense of dynamics, can create a perception of irritating high frequencies and degrade/destroy the feeling of a natural envelopment similar to what a good surround sound experience can give. For first reflections from the sidewalls I prefer well designed and "placed" diffusion treatments which can not only improve imaging but also tonality, clarity and a sense of envelopment.

Again my experience to date is that a small spread (ie: 11.5ft in my case) on the short wall of a rectangular room can be very pleasing but attention to sidewall reflections with proper diffusion/placement becomes even more important and again the listener's location should still be IMO maintained in the back 3rd of the room(assuming reasonable ratios for a rectangular room) for the best perceived low frequency performance at the listener's location in the room. The loudspeaker will almost certainly need to be rotated in the corner somewhat so that the loudspeaker integrates best with the listener location and room's reflections qualities. Any problem room modes will need dealt with regardless of which wall is used in a rectangular room.

IMHO alot of listeners don't realize that in typical home listening rooms what you think you hear from your loudspeakers is actually a combination of what you hear directly from the loudspeaker along with all the colorations from reflections in the room being processed by your ear/brain. In many typical sized home listening rooms there is a transition region from around 250Hz to 500Hz on down where room modes become one of the dominate factors in the quality of reproduction that is perceived from even the very best loudspeakers and in this transition region on up in frequency a typical room's lack of diffusion becomes a large source of coloration that again affects the listener's perception of even the best loudspeakers available.

mike tn

[DrWho]

I tried to wheedle the source of that "x"-feet-back statement out of Bentz a while back (the line went dead).

It's not that I disagree with you, but is that "12 feet" your experience, or did you read that somewhere?

I think the only number I mentioned was 10x the largest driver-to-driver spacing and that came from a bunch of measurements that I believe Don Davis took. It's a Syn-Aud-Con thing.

The Jub LF is 40" and the HF is ~27", so the driver-to-driver spacing is about 35"? So ideally you'd be about 30ft back from that calculation.

I've not taken a Jub outside to listen to it, but every other speaker I've heard has a rather definitive threshold where the sound gels and it always ends up close enough to 10x that I've just kinda adopted the same rule of thumb.

I don't think it's a hard and fast rule though....I would expect that if you're within the coverage pattern of both drivers, they have constant coverage, and they are time-aligned, then the only thing changing with distance is the vertical angle between the HF and LF. If you're sitting too close, the highs will seem like they're coming from very high in the air, and the lows like they're coming from the floor. As you move back, that vertical image starts to center and sound like one acoustic source. Things get more complicated in the home though because you've got ceiling and floor reflections....I dunno if that pushes it closer or further back though.

Btw, the issue of "gelling" or whatever isn't a huge deal in light of all the other stuff going on. For instance, my Chorus II's sound just fine at 10', but they don't gel until about 20ft. I've listened as close as 6ft in college and still found it quite enjoyable...it was definitely different though. Btw, my Heresy speakers gel at about 10' and double stack pro lascalas is about 30ft.

One other comment....when a speaker sounds better from outside the room (like through a doorway), the reason is because the speaker was tweaked for a flat power response, but the on-axis may not necessarily be flat. Also, you're not experiencing all the discrete specular reflections, but are hearing a dense soundfield with a flatter tonal balance. If your speaker has constant directivity, then you get to experience the same flat power response at the listening position as you do outside the room. So then the only difference are all the reflections and what not....which in a good room aren't going to be much different than standing outside of the room.

[mikebse2a3]

Here was an example chart Roy posted long ago to help visualize the minimum distance from were individual horn's responses merge together if the polars are well controlled constant coverage such as exhibited by the K402.

mike tn