Did I get the right center channel? Am I expecting too much from it?

[iLikeThemTheKlipsches]

Hi!

I recently upgraded my home theater setup from Polk bookshelf speakers to a set of Klipsch Reference IV speakers. I kept the Polk subwoofer -- a PSW550 -- but went with RF-62 fronts, RS-42 surrounds, and a RC-52 center.

I absolutely love the fronts. They sound great, highs are crystal-clear, and they can reproduce lows ridiculously well (you might not even need a sub with these guys!).

I realize the surrounds are "small", but our living room is pretty narrow, and the surrounds end up being very close to the main sitting area -- about two, three feet away from our heads. So far they're doing the job very well, they sound very clear, sound dispersion is great (I have them pointing to our heads, meaning the drivers are firing into the center of the room and towards the back of our couch, creating a nice sound field).

My problem is with the center. I find that the sound just doesn't have the same quality as the fronts and surrounds. Everything sounds a bit muffled. I tried playing with settings on my receiver (a Kenwood VR-7070), but the only setting I have for the center is switching between "normal" and "large", and that does not seem to make things any better.

I know the drivers on the RC-52 are not the same as on the fronts (5.25" on the RC-52 vs 6.5" on the RF-62), and according to some of the posts / documentation I read, that might be the source of the tonal discrepancy. This here forum seems like the right place to get good answers... is this where my problem is coming from? Should I upgrade to a RC-62?

I asked an "expert" (Future Shop...) and the person told me I'd be wasting my money on the RC-62 -- that the bigger center would really only be a good match to the RF-82 fronts. He was telling me my RC-52 should be just fine, and that I might have a problem with my receiver. He said this type of tonal issue is usually fixed at the source level by playing with per-speaker equalizer settings (which my Kenwood receiver does not do).

Anyway -- long story short, what would you guys suggest? I know on paper the RC-52 doesn't "match" the RF-62s. But is it supposed to sound very different? Honnestly, sound quality out of my RC-52 doesn't seem much better than if I was using my TV's built-in speakers...

I have another 3 weeks to return any of these speakers, so any help in decision-making would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

[EdHitchens]

I'll vouch for the RC-62. I have it paired with my RF-62s and it sounds great. I didn't bother with the RC-52 as some of the reviews I'd read were not complimentary, especially if paired with the 62s or 82s, and I got the 62 for a decent price.

My only complaint is that depending on the person speaking onscreen, some voices are slightly nasal or harsh, such as Sigourney Weaver's voice in Avatar. When she first comes onscreen it was like honk! honk! But that is more the fault of my receiver and EQ setup; I'm sure the right person could tweak everything to be perfect but I'm still working on it.

[Youthman]

I demoed the RC-52 with the RF-82's and the RC-52 was rather disappointing. The RC-62 IMO is a much better speaker and is probably why Klipsch recommends the RC-62 with the RF-62's. Here is the speaker system they recommend. Your RS-42's will be fine. I wouldn't worry about upgrading them to the RS-52's unless you find that you need to.

[Yura]

Just to play the devil's advocate - While RC-52 is not an exact match to RF-62, it is very close. I've had RF-62s paired with different center channels and most of them can sound fine if you can adjust your settings. I would add a bit of "gain" on the front channel and make it slightly louder.

I think your receiver may be holding your system back and something with Audesey2 MultiEQ speaker room calibration would really bring out the good sound.

[iLikeThemTheKlipsches]

Thanks for all the great feedback!

I'd love to try out the RC-62, but none of our local Future Shops carry it, so I'd need to special-order it from another city, which would be inconvenient (couple weeks).

I wasn't planning on upgrading my receiver for a little while (my current one was pre-HDMI, but was very decent for the time), but it might just be simpler for me to go pick up a 600-700$ receiver, try it out, and return it for a refund if it doesn't make a difference in the RC-52 sound quality.

[Ironsave]

Welcome to the Forum!

If I were in your shoes; I would return the RC 52 and get the 62.

If your mains sound really good; the receiver likely is adequate (for now).

If you keep the RC 52, you will always be scrutinizing it and wondering "what if?".....

My .02

Good Luck.

[SuBXeRo]

The sensitivity between the rf-62's and the rc-52 are almost identical, off by 1db which is not much at all. This muffled voices thing you describe, i think i know what you are talking about. I had an rc-35 and at lower volumes it was kind of muffled, once i turned up the volume though it cleared right up. If i wasnt in an apt and could have it at the level i wanted, things wouldnt have been an issue. I did upgrade to and older RC-3 II and although they have the same size drivers and the rc-35 is the upgraded version to the rc-3 II, i noticed it didnt have the same muffled problem. With that said, you have a different center and could be experiencing the same thing that I did. Needless to say, i did have an rc-10 as well and it was crystal clear, smaller drivers then anything ive had and what you have. I only upgraded to get a larger presence, i def have a much larger presence with the rc-3 II or with the rc-35, that would be the only reason why i would say for you to upgrade your center.

Also, set your receiver setting for your center to normal. My gripe with a receiver is that most don't have enough options to customize how everything sounds. I defintly nailed that though with buying a processor/amp combo. Receivers are nice because everything is under the samne hood, but when the technology improves, the whole car goes. In a processor/amp combo, you can keep the amp much much much longer than processor part. Amp technology stays pretty static, sure they are upgrades over time but it doesnt compare with the speed at which audio/video technology turns over. If you stay the receiver route, thats not problem either, just buy a good decent receiver, onkyo, denon, harmankardon, pioneer, marantz etc...

[wuzzzer]

I don't know if upgrading your receiver is going to make you achieve what you're after. Klipsch made the Reference IV speakers pretty easy to match up as far as what goes with what. RF-52 / RC-52...RF-62 / RC-62..., etc. Everyone that I've read about that went from an RC-52 to an RC-62 said they were glad they did.

[Fotog]

I cannot speak to your specific speakers - however I can definately understand your description of the muffled sound from the center. All I can say is the correct center makes all the difference in clarity.

Sometimes adjusting the volume ("gain") on individual speakers is an option as long as your receiver supports that (and yours does not). If you have the option to return the 52 for the 62 (which you post that you do), then that is what I would do. You can always run your center through your mains (Phantom mode) while your center is out getting replaced. Just my .02

[iLikeThemTheKlipsches]

Sometimes adjusting the volume ("gain") on individual speakers is an option as long as your receiver supports that (and yours does not). If you have the option to return the 52 for the 62 (which you post that you do), then that is what I would do. You can always run your center through your mains (Phantom mode) while your center is out getting replaced.

Thanks for the input! I tried turning off the center and having its input go through the mains and although I wasn't crazy about the results, it would definitely work as a temporary solution while I'm waiting for a new center.

My receiver actually does support per-speaker level adjustments (forgot to mention that!), though only by 1db increments. I'll bump up the center a notch at a time and do some testing. Thanks for pointing that out!

[USNRET]

Sounds like a rat shack SPL meter would be a good investment for you so that you can set the levels correctly.

[Arky]

I'll bump up the center a notch at a time and do some testing.

Bump it all the way then back-off as needed.

I'm of the opinion buy the best center made; that will address clarity. The center is the most important position concerning theater.

If using heritage, I say go 3 identical across the front. but, what do i no.

[dtel]

but, what do i no.

You can't [bs] me this list says it all. []..............and also a cool looking [ip], what more could you want ? []

Klipsch '90 Heresy II - '85 Cornwalls - '05 BEC Cornscala II's - '72 Heresy - KC-1's - HT2's - KSB1.1's ; Outlaw 990 pre/pro;Outlaw 7500 amp; Qsc plx 2402 - Sony dvd; SVS 2039pc+; Panny Plasma; Dish VIP 622; HK 7200

[iLikeThemTheKlipsches]

Well, I managed to convince the folks at FS to buy the RC-62 from another store (only one store carried the RC-62 in the whole province) and have it brought in for me to pick up. When it arrives (hopefully sometime this week) I'll return my RC-52, hook up the RC-62 and see if I still feel sounds are muffled. If not, I'll keep the 62; if so, I'll return it and get my 52 back. The 62 is just a bit too big for my TV stand -- I'll have to put my TV on top of it. Won't look too pretty.

I'll post here again to let everyone know how things turned out. Thanks again for everyone's input!

[Fotog]

I actually like the TV atop the center channel speaker - given the speaker cabinet will support the weight. If not an elongated inverted "U" shape stand can be fabricated from wood to cover your speaker and support the TV base. What is particularly nice about this set up is the direct radiance of the center channel from the midpoint of the screen.

[Rick]

I think you did the right thing by ordering the RC-62. I used to own an RF-62/RC-62/RF-62 setup and they are a perfect match. I also highly recommend you purchase a Radio Shack SPL meter. Having the channel levels matched is critical to a home theater system IMO..

[Islander]

I've got JubScala mains and was using a Heresy III as a centre. When I replaced it with a Belle, I figured the sound would match up much better across the front, but I was surprised to find that the dialogue seemed a bit muffled. Bumping up the centre channel 2-3dB fixed it right up and now I'm quite happy with the sound.

[garyrc]

I use a Belle Klipsch for a center. Dialog crispness ranges from fairly dull (one character in the middle of the series The West Wing) to outrageously bright and hyper-crisp (The British series Coupling). Most dialog sounds about right. Different dialog mixers seem to have different ideas about how bright the dialog should be, and, just as in music, good speakers will reveal these differences. We listen to some TV in our main HT and music room, and we've noticed that sometimes the sound is monkeyed around with when a show we are very familiar with is put on disk.

I don't know if you can do this conveniently with your set-up, but have you tried listening to dialog through your left and right fronts to see how much of what you're hearing is due to yout center and how much reflects the taste of the dailog mixers?

All that being said, I think everyone should have tone controls on the center channel (I don't at the moment). They would be used rather rarely, but when one is stuck with dull or over-bright dialog they would be handy.

[Islander]

I think everyone should have tone controls on the center channel (I don't at the moment). They would be used rather rarely, but when one is stuck with dull or over-bright dialog they would be handy.

Quite a few Yamaha AV receivers have a graphic EQ for the centre channel so its timbre can be matched with the main speakers. Mine is set manually, but the newer models can do it automatically.

[tragusa3]

My Dad uses the 62 with his rf62's and I think you'll be pleased with your decision!

I'm using three LaScala, which do an excellent job, but I still find issue from time to time depending on how the center dialogue was mixed. My processor allows me to bump around both the LFE and Center channel levels and they automatically reset next time the unit is turned on. I use this feature often. When I run into an issue I bump it by 2-3db and problem solved.