DAC's and digital media managment

[mark1101]

One thing I mentioned that I'll reiterate is that time again I have found (I think just about everyone knows this as it is so obvious) that the analog outputs of various "high end" soundcards make a significant compromise. I have used analog outs method for years because it can sound acceptable but even the best of these cards are not as good as a decent home audio pre/pro and or outboard DAC. Using the digital outputs, HDMI, or USB is a different story. That is definitely the way to go. A soundcard is a means to try and be cost effective and still get respectable sound. It is not a means to replace home audio components as far as sound quality goes.

Last night I ordered a USB cable and extension and have relocated my PC closer to my system to avoid the soundcard. I am just going to go USB into my DAC which should be about as seamless as I can get. I will keep the soundcard for my measurement rig.

I hope no one thinks I'm taking a shot at the PC guys out there. I'm just trying to behonest with what I've found. Heck, I'm one who is still trying to learn how to get the best sound out of mine so I can catch up and make better use of such a great tool for my music hobby.

[Pete H]

I don't know how to quote from multiple posts so I'll try to cover most of the details in this post. I'm in the final stages of wiring on a complete gutting and remodeling on my home. I have to get all of the network, audio and HT wiring done so I can start hanging drywall which is why I'm trying to make these decisions now, knowing that I'm going to build a server that will handle all of my media in the near future.

[mark1101]

I would say that if your are going to use a computer for the center of all your media then I would use it only for the internet and distributing the media digitally to independent HT and or 2 CH audio systems that are in and of themselves optimized for best sound. In other words only use the PC for media acquisition, organization, and as the delivery system, and avoid using it as an audio component such as a DAC.

[gnatnoop]

I would say that if your are going to use a computer for the center of all your media then I would use it only for the internet and distributing the media digitally to independent HT and or 2 CH audio systems that are in and of themselves optimized for best sound. In other words only use the PC for media acquisition, organization, and as the delivery system, and avoid using it as an audio component such as a DAC.

yes. exactly. +1, [Y], etc.....

[Jsaint]

I agree and use iTunes & Tuneup, a good combo for ripping your own or repairing older tags and art. I think Apple has continued to improve iTunes and certainly will continue adding cool features like Genius. I do wish they would unload more resources when not in use.

i also use iTunes visualizations also Whitecap and G-force by Soundstream.

I would have to say that a home built HTPC/Music server is the way to go and can be built for near $500 with top quality sound and limitless expansion options.

I recommend optical output to a good quality AVR DAC you won't be disappointed.

BTW I also have a Auzentech X-plosion audio card I could go directly to amplification from there.

[o0O Bill O0o]

Ok, or you can buy a Mac mini http://www.apple.com/macmini/ and use that.

HDMI makes great way to stream 24/192 media, if you really have high resolution media.

One can also purchase PureMusic to go with iTunes, to up-sample what ever media to 24/192.

So if the gravity of this thread is leaning towards HTPC, the I recommend that the full system look like this.

1. Internet

2. Router/ Sever ( Apple Airport Extreme)

3. Media Server ( Apple TimeCapsule 2TB)

4. Media Player (Mac mini)

5. Laptop (Macbook Air)

6. Desktop (iMac)

7-9. iPad, iPod, & iPhone

What makes this beat other solutions every-time, is INTEGRATION! and if stuff doesn't work, you fuss at ONE company.

The Home Theater PC is a great solution, I have had one for years, but now I have the listed above components and I'm not regretting it one bit.

Bill

[Rich_Guy]

One thing I mentioned that I'll reiterate is that time again I have found (I think just about everyone knows this as it is so obvious) that the analog outputs of various "high end" soundcards make a significant compromise. I have used analog outs method for years because it can sound acceptable but even the best of these cards are not as good as a decent home audio pre/pro and or outboard DAC. Using the digital outputs, HDMI, or USB is a different story. That is definitely the way to go. A soundcard is a means to try and be cost effective and still get respectable sound. It is not a means to replace home audio components as far as sound quality goes.

Definitely, I would not use analog out from a sound card, Auzentech cards are very nice but I use mine to send a digital signal out, my PR-SC885 processor is my DAC with a very good quality Burr-Brown DAC in the PR-SC885. I disagree with a soundcard being a means to be cost effective, a quality sound card can be a good way to get a high quality digital output from your computer. As for the music quality of my music server it is exceptional, it is definitely my preferred source for music quality.

As for itunes, I haven't seen anything from them I want on my system, there are plenty of choices that you can choose from and it's pretty much a personal preference for what you want to use as a player and to RIP discs, burn discs, organize your music, etc . Try a few and see what you prefer, I must have tried at least a dozen but I prefer Windows Media Player. I do use both G-Force and WhiteCap visualization add-on's, mostly WhiteCap now. Most of my music files are WAV lossless, it uses the most hard drive space but I prefer it for sound quality.

[BE36]

I like the apple route also. I keep the movies on Blue Ray when I want quality and Netflix streaming for others.

DAC for less than $500 highly rated.

http://www.cambridgeaudio.com/summary.php?PID=320

I am using fiber optic, over 45 feet long from an iMac to Bel Canto. Bel Canto reccomends less than 30 feet but I have tried shorter cables an not heard a difference.

Fiber optic isolates the computer elctricaly from the DAC/system, less noise and no ground loop issues.

Fiber connection on Apple and most systems is limited to 24/96. (Sounds so much better than CDs)

Hearing rumors that Firewire may become the next way to connnect to a DAC and support 24/192.

Replacing a Stereophile "A" rated CD Player with a good DAC, I am surprised by two things.

1) How good a good CD can sound (via iMac & DAC, much better than the old CD player)

2) How bad a good CD sounds compared to a good 24/96 recording.

[o0O Bill O0o]

I like the apple route also.

Fiber connection on Apple and most systems is limited to 24/96. (Sounds so much better than CDs)

Hearing rumors that Firewire may become the next way to connnect to a DAC and support 24/192.

If you purchase PureMusic for iTunes, then you can send up to 24/192 ( actually higher.. if you read the PM manual, but who as a DAC that can do 32/384?)

Also did some more research and downloaded the demo. PM allows you do use the "AudioUnit Plug-ins" which are PRO Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) plug ins. There is one Plug in made by IK Multimedia that provides licensed MultiEQXT from Audysssey. Therefore, provide you purchase PM and the IK ARC plugin/w Mic you will have a full fledged 24/192 capable room correcting digital playback system.

But wait there's more,

PM allows users to take advantage of it's built in Crossovers ( up to 4 way), for those with Klipschorns, Lascalas,or other bi/tri amp capable speakers/subwoofers this means you can do all the crossovers in the digital domain and send straight to your 8 channel DAC (there are many pro ones out there) and then straight to you amps-preserving a limited Analog stage and getting the best fidelity.

cool, huh?

[Pete H]

PM allows users to take advantage of it's built in Crossovers ( up to 4 way), for those with Klipschorns, Lascalas,or other bi/tri amp capable speakers/subwoofers this means you can do all the crossovers in the digital domain and send straight to your 8 channel DAC (there are many pro ones out there) and then straight to you amps-preserving a limited Analog stage and getting the best fidelity.

cool, huh?

Very! You are all giving me a lot of things to consider but some of the choices will be eliminated if I stay PC, which I'm probably going to do since everything I have is PC.

If I run USB, Toslink and Firewire from the planed server location to the HT area, I would think I have my bases covered.

[BE36]

I like the apple route also.

Fiber connection on Apple and most systems is limited to 24/96. (Sounds so much better than CDs)

Hearing rumors that Firewire may become the next way to connnect to a DAC and support 24/192.

If you purchase PureMusic for iTunes, then you can send up to 24/192 ( actually higher.. if you read the PM manual, but who as a DAC that can do 32/384?)

Also did some more research and downloaded the demo. PM allows you do use the "AudioUnit Plug-ins" which are PRO Digital Audio Workstation (DAW) plug ins. There is one Plug in made by IK Multimedia that provides licensed MultiEQXT from Audysssey. Therefore, provide you purchase PM and the IK ARC plugin/w Mic you will have a full fledged 24/192 capable room correcting digital playback system.

But wait there's more,

PM allows users to take advantage of it's built in Crossovers ( up to 4 way), for those with Klipschorns, Lascalas,or other bi/tri amp capable speakers/subwoofers this means you can do all the crossovers in the digital domain and send straight to your 8 channel DAC (there are many pro ones out there) and then straight to you amps-preserving a limited Analog stage and getting the best fidelity.

cool, huh?

I do not have one, but there is a company in Colorado that just announced they have a low jitter 384 USB connection.

[A1UC]

I was looking for some advice , Some said if you have a good Dac that you

dont need to purchase an external one , I have a Integra 50.2 and a Oppo - BDP 93 can anyone tell me anything ?

Also what else do I need to make this work ?

[The Dude]

I bumped this.

[Lemon string]

Is Apple TV a DAC? I don't see any analog outputs on it. It appears to only output HDMI or Toslink (optical). It also appears to limit you to either Apple lossless or WAV. Otherwise, I like the idea. I would want to use my own Benchmark DAC (which won't decode Apple lossless AIFF), so a wireless stream from my PC to my equipment rack. Right now I just run Toslink from a soundcard and I can get up to 24/192.

I stream Flac files to apple tv. I use a subscription service called Qobuz that streams lossless flac files to my apple tv via airfoil. I come out of apple tv via optical to a Schitt Bifrost with their uber upgrade . Couldn't be happier and its uber easy. I also use i tunes along with airport on occasion if Qobuz doesn't have something in my iTunes library, doesn't happen to often but... the beatles, zeppelin etc....

 

I recommend this set up as stated I'm happy and it sounds great to my ears. Maybe a devialet would sound better but its a bit out of my range currently. 

[Schu]

Not one mention of dsd...

[tromprof]

Not one mention of dsd...

I started reading this thread before I realized it was several years old. DSD seems to be making a bit of a revival, I notice that Pioneer is supporting DSD on their new TOTL receivers. I don't think it was even possible to stream DSD in 2011, and it is still not possible to rip an SACD to your hard drive.

[muel]

 

Not one mention of dsd...

I started reading this thread before I realized it was several years old. DSD seems to be making a bit of a revival, I notice that Pioneer is supporting DSD on their new TOTL receivers. I don't think it was even possible to stream DSD in 2011, and it is still not possible to rip an SACD to your hard drive.

 

 

You can but it takes effort.  This guy will do it for you:  http://www.goldeneardigital.com/digitizing-sacds.html

[twk123]

I have this in my room and I swear by it:

 

Aune T1 Tube USB DAC:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2QJMRY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

It looks awesome and you can swap and upgrade the tube as well. I did an AB test with this DAC using Spotify Premium and Vinyl and could not tell a difference.

[joshnich]

Coincidentally, I have just over the past week set up a mac mini music server using pure music software. I had an Olive server that started going wonky and the company isn’t providing any service so I took the leap into a new solution. I went with mac because I am a computer idiot and the only computers I have ever owned have been macs.

 I have a benchmark USB DAC 1 that I was using but like another poster here, I find the Benchmark sound to be a little sterile. So I am using the DAC in my Oppo 105 that sounds much better to my ears.  I think that DACs have come a long way in the past couple of years and one in the Oppo is evidence of that.

Its kind a pain that I need to set the input on the oppo everytime I turn on the system.  There might be a setting someplace, if there is I cant find it amongst the seemingly endless menus etc.

I am ripping CDs in apple lossless and setting pure music to upsample to the dac and am very impressed with the quality.

At least for me, these things aren’t as turn key as I would like and I am still at a loss to understand a lot of the functions of the software but so far so good.  You can BTW play DSD with pure music. The DSD files are still housed on itunes but are processed by pure music. You have to do a fair amount of setting adjustments, disabling and enabling of things that I am not sure are worth the effort as the HD music from HDtracks sounds pretty darn amazing and they are basically plug and play.

[Chris A]

I have this in my room and I swear by it:

 

Aune T1 Tube USB DAC:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00A2QJMRY/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

It looks awesome and you can swap and upgrade the tube as well. I did an AB test with this DAC using Spotify Premium and Vinyl and could not tell a difference.

 

Oh...I see - it glows in the dark...

 

I got one of these in my listening room...it's way cool, too, and if you put it up close to the preamp - it makes the sound buzz in really interesting sound patterns - AND it has a "sound-activated mode"...which completely blows my mind when I really turn up the rig:

 

Edited November 5, 2014 by Chris A