Marvel Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 For movies, not having a subwoofer is not an option...regardless of how capable your mains are. For those who listen to movies with the only audio being their TV speakers, this is silly. Subs are ALWAYS an option. My wife and I are more than happy to have our audio piped through our LaScalas. Would we enjoy lower bass? Sure, but it isn't required. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Bruce, I agree, but then I'm not into explosion movies on a regular basis. The gun shots (Open Range) and explosions (Master and Commander) in Glenn aka Picky's home theater are awsome and would not be the same without the subs, but I can still enjoy films without also having my organs (or my budget) shaken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennoc442 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 My goal is to get the belles sounding good on their own for music, without the use of a sub. I am looking forward to replacing the crossovers to see if this helps. Of course if I am playing some hip hop or watching a concert, I will have the subs on. I will have to look for a amp next, since I won't have the Mitsubishi for long, as it is going to my fathers house. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tragusa3 Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Of course subs are an option in that sense. Your LaScalas are an option as well. Everyone will have an opinion and that was mine. I would not consider subs optional for theater use, there is far too much information in the lower octive. Just finished watching "Unstoppable". The LFE content for the train was so important that I would argue it was literally a character in the movie. You wouldn't have had that with Belles or Khorns alone. Anyway, I wish our first conversation together could have been other than you calling me "silly". On topic, I misunderstood the OP's goal and now do. I just changed the crossovers out in my LaScala and didn't get any change in my low end. If there is, it's very subtle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rennoc442 Posted April 11, 2011 Author Share Posted April 11, 2011 The goal is to enjoy music on the belles! Instead of running to my turntable setup in my bedroom! Im sure the sub I want to get will help out for music. I just wanted to avoid using a sub to enjoy music you know? I think the room placement prohibits me from fully enjoying the belles, so a sub may be needed for now to enjoy it. I can't wait to move out! I plan on doing the crossovers after I find a better sub. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 It's a bit confusing. You'd get more bass from K'horns, but still not enough for the lowest organ tones, or, IMHO, even for top knotch piano recordings which I'd discovered need significant clean bass in the lowest octave to sound realistic. I am a fan of the Tuba subs and intend to build one soon. They get usable output well into the teens. I am using a box sub at the moment and with a bit of care in setup find it quite cleanly joined with the 'horns and most don't even know it's there. However, the Tuba gets down further, is more efficient, and as a hornhead I just want all horns! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I am a fan of the Tuba subs and intend to build one soon. They get usable output well into the teens. Dave Dave, Am I correct that a Danley is a tapped horn and Tuba sub is something else? If so, what are the differences and why do you prefer a Tuba over a tapped horn? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 Am I correct that a Danley is a tapped horn and Tuba sub is something else? If so, what are the differences and why do you prefer a Tuba over a tapped horn? Suggest you follow the link and come to your own decision. I don't do sales. Just seems to me this approach has to be closer to PWK than anything I've seen and quite affordable. I am a pretty sad excuse for a woodworker, but I have the basic tools and suppose that even if I have to keep buying wood until I am a couple of boards over the call I'll still eventually come out a winner. There are a number of configurations for this thing, but I ordered the low profile plans, as it will sit nicely behind my music room sofa and be totally out of sight and mind. Perfect place to sit your beer, if you don't mind the fizzies being rapidly dissipated from it... Dang sure looks fine on paper. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brac Posted April 11, 2011 Share Posted April 11, 2011 I am getting ready to start a build on the tapped horn. If they are good enough for the Wall of Jubilee's, then their good enough for me! Still gathering info and looking for better drawings, but I'm a go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Anyway, I wish our first conversation together could have been other than you calling me "silly". Nope, not calling you silly at all. I just htink the idea was/is silly. I'm just saying that subs aren't necessary, even though there is an improvement in the playback system. We would have to define necessary, but I don't think we need to go there. I just say we should enjoy the music, whether we hear the full range or not. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 "I am a fan of the Tuba subs and intend to build one soon. They get usable output well into the teens. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 "I am a fan of the Tuba subs and intend to build one soon. They get usable output well into the teens." djk, Do you have an opinion regarding tapped horns, such as those by Danley? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chisoxpurdue Posted April 12, 2011 Share Posted April 12, 2011 Just so everyone knows, I see this post and only think one thing... He is unhappy with his Belles and should just give them to me. I know he is not unhappy and likes his speakers and just wants to improve them. But I really just hope he is unhappy and wants to give them away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 "Do you have an opinion regarding tapped horns, such as those by Danley?" They look like the real deal, and they can also be a good DIY project. For a small mouth area they don't have the problems that a regular front load horn does (ie: the Tuba as above). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 they don't have the problems that a regular front load horn does (ie: the Tuba as above). As the lucky owner of both K-horns and La Scalas (basically the same as Belles), yes, the Belles need a sub woofer for music. Morph the Cat (Donald Fagen) sounds kind of dumb on the La Scalas when compared to the K-horns. Horns have to be long and big to get low frequencies, and that is the trade off with the Belle and La Scala bass bin. As big as they are, the bass bin is too small for low bass. I built the "Tuba Table" sub for my La Scalas and have been very pleased with the result, both for music and movies. The nice thing about my tuba is that the transition is seamless between the La Scalas and the sub. I am not sure what problems the tuba sub is supposed to have, but I have not found any with mine. [] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I'm using two of the above mentioned DTS10's along with LaScalas. It is a wonderful combo and I'm confident you would never miss not having Khorns. In comparison to an option like the RSW15, there simply is none. I used to have LaScalas with subs (VMPS) and feel that you need horn subs to go with horn bass. I don't agree with corner placement of DTS 10's. You need the mouth at your feet (think very large coffee table), since the horns are 20-40 feet long to get down from 11 Hz. to 80 Hz. (THX approved for Belle's). Otherwise you will need a HUGE time delay to your Belles to line them up coherently.........better to get it close acoustially and give up corner loading for proximity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 ...I don't agree with corner placement of DTS 10's. You need the mouth at your feet (think very large coffee table), since the horns are 20-40 feet long to get down from 11 Hz. to 80 Hz. (THX approved for Belle's). Otherwise you will need a HUGE time delay to your Belles to line them up coherently.........better to get it close acoustially and give up corner loading for proximity...I agree with what you said here if you add the words "without time delay correction employed on your speakers". Then it makes perfect sense to me.Mine are delay corrected, even the driver delays in the Jubs and center Belle. It sounds outstanding to me with my TH subs in the front corners of the room behind the Jubs. Chris [Y] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 they don't have the problems that a regular front load horn does (ie: the Tuba as above). As the lucky owner of both K-horns and La Scalas (basically the same as Belles), yes, the Belles need a sub woofer for music. Morph the Cat (Donald Fagen) sounds kind of dumb on the La Scalas when compared to the K-horns. Horns have to be long and big to get low frequencies, and that is the trade off with the Belle and La Scala bass bin. As big as they are, the bass bin is too small for low bass. I built the "Tuba Table" sub for my La Scalas and have been very pleased with the result, both for music and movies. The nice thing about my tuba is that the transition is seamless between the La Scalas and the sub. I am not sure what problems the tuba sub is supposed to have, but I have not found any with mine. I think ALL horn subs (tapped or not) should be coffee tables since they are from 10-40 feet long, depending on whose box you built, their effective distance from the listener is way far back, so they need to be close to compensate........otherwise you get into a ridiculous amount of time delay of the main speakers to even them up. Most folks that are unhappy with the "coherence" of tapped horn subs coupled with any of the Klipsch bass horns have them in the corners, which is wrong IMHO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 I am not sure what problems the tuba sub is supposed to have, but I have not found any with mine. I wouldn't think that you would have problems. The only downside that I see with the Tuba designs are size and form factors: if you have the room for them, then I actually recommend them.Chris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted April 13, 2011 Share Posted April 13, 2011 ; The only downside that I see with the Tuba designs are size and form factors: if you have the room for them, then I actually recommend them. Chris Size is the downside of the tuba subs, but the Tuba Table is not that huge, and its "table" design helps it blend in. It is the middle in the attached photo with La Scalas on either side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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