Heritage_Head Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) How are they different and do the oil can caps have any advantage for sound? Edited March 10, 2014 by reference_head Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 (edited) I am not sure that is an answerable question... there is more to it than that as far as I know. it's an entire circuit that is re engineered, not just cap replacement... and I do mean Engineered. when you say new style, what do you mean exactly? Edited March 10, 2014 by Schu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 To my ears the PIO caps like the Jensen's seem smoother and a little rolled off on the high end in the tweeter circuit, the film and foils seem to have sharper detail (more aggressive). I originally had a Jensen PIO AA network for my center speaker but asked Dean to build me another network with Auricaps since my high frequency hearing is not the greatest. I prefer the top end a tad hotter but not to the fatiguing point when listening at loud levels. I think we all hear and interpret sounds differently so it will be hard to really provide a valid explanation you would have to hear it first hand and see which is preferable to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Is PIO the oil caps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Is PIO the oil caps? Yes, Paper In Oil. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 10, 2014 Share Posted March 10, 2014 Everything in a can is not paper in oil. Most of the cans in Klipsch networks are metallized Mylar (polyester) in oil. Modern motor run and motor start (can) types are normally metallized polypropylene in oil. By "new style", you are probably just thinking of the tubular, oval, and flat axial wound types. The oil provides damping and increases the amount of heat it can be exposed to. As to the sound, I honestly don't know. Jeff Glowacki of Soniccraft recently told me that a dry paper capacitor sounds just as good as its oil equivalent. Dielectric type (material) and construction quality vary greatly, as do the measurements and related sound. There is both agreement and disagreement regarding the various factors, and what their impact (if any) on the sound might be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted March 10, 2014 Author Share Posted March 10, 2014 Dean what is your preference and why? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 This is a trap of some sort isn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 You guys may have seen this, but it seems this guy can hear a difference in every cap he tests. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted March 11, 2014 Author Share Posted March 11, 2014 This is a trap of some sort isn't it? lol no I really would like to know. I know nothing about caps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muel Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 When I hold those caps up to my ear I don't hear anything! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 11, 2014 Share Posted March 11, 2014 That's what I'm talking about, a nice quiet cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 12, 2014 Share Posted March 12, 2014 You guys may have seen this, but it seems this guy can hear a difference in every cap he tests. http://www.humblehomemadehifi.com/Cap.html This is an interesting list... can anyone with vast knowledge confirm similarities in his findings? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 (edited) I hear differences that I can articulate using general terms, or in some cases, degrees of a certain attribute or characteristic. If the dielectric and construction of the capacitors I'm comparing are basically the same, I usually can't hear a difference. I say "usually" because there are a couple of exceptions. So sure, I can hear and describe the differences between a PIO, Mylar, film and tin, and a few metallized polypropylenes - but you aren't going to see me writing out a half a page describing the differences in sound between two caps that are basically the same. I don't care much for that site and I think the guy's a loon. Passive components are also circuit dependant. Just because a certain capacitor sounds nice in a certain preamp circuit doesn't mean it's going to do the same thing in the passive filter that's feeding the signal to your compression driver. I was asked earlier what I like. The answer is "it depends" - I consider everything from the circuit to the listener's preferences and everything in between. Edited March 13, 2014 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 13, 2014 Share Posted March 13, 2014 Thank you sir... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted March 17, 2014 Author Share Posted March 17, 2014 So what do caps do in the xo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 ... and I think the guy's a loon. Now you're starting to sound like Kelly... Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JL Sargent Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 I've swapped and played with some different ones and the oil cans are smoother to me. Even the out of spec way high ESR ones still had a smooth quality to them. I'm sure the newer caps are more accurate in many ways but they are sometimes too bright and certainly not as smooth IMHO. ] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 17, 2014 Share Posted March 17, 2014 (edited) So, you hear what I hear. That's all true, but I also hear some low level grunge, and I assume it's because the dielectric is breaking down. At any rate, that's why I prefer to use the paper in oils and wax impregnated films on my Heritage rebuilds. You can use modern film types, but then some want it attenuated. Still, it doesn't sound the same, and some will simply prefer one type over the other. "...as frequency decreases, the capacitors reactance increases. That is, capacitors pass high frequencies and filter out low ones." Edited March 19, 2014 by DeanG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heritage_Head Posted March 19, 2014 Author Share Posted March 19, 2014 So dean I have some b2 xo from 81 corns. I was thinking about upgrading them to replace the b xo I put in from bob. I don't see a pm on your profile. So could you shoot me a pm on a price. Thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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