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RC-64 Clarity


Hypoxia
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I'm using DeanG RF-7's in front with an RC-64 center channel and Paradigm rears driven by a Yamaha RX-V3900. I always struggle to understand the verbage through the center channel while watching movies. I always assumed it was my hearing but after a recent hearing test I know that is not the case, at least not entirely. The center volume is good, I'm just wondering what I can do to improve the enunciation?

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I'm using DeanG RF-7's in front with an RC-64 center channel and Paradigm rears driven by a Yamaha RX-V3900. I always struggle to understand the verbage through the center channel while watching movies. I always assumed it was my hearing but after a recent hearing test I know that is not the case, at least not entirely. The center volume is good, I'm just wondering what I can do to improve the enunciation?

I used to have serious issues with my RC-64 not quite being tonally matched with my RF-63's and a somewhat "muffled" sound with dialog. First I replaced my long standing "warmish" B&K Reference 4430 amp with a "brighter/neutral"(more detailed) Acurus A200x3 amp to run the center and surrounds. That helped in a big way. After I ran Audyssey MultEQ XT, it improved even more. My NAD T175HD pre/pro has a feature in the tone control section that boosts the midrange of the center channel specifically for clearer dialog and that even helped quite a bit more. I still have some issues with hearing dialog but I can attribute most of that to concrete walls and ceramic tile over concrete floors, very little damping materials in the room, and 12ft ceilings.

Bill

Edited by willland
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I used to use a Yamaha RXV-2300 and had lots of problems with my center as well, everything was unclear ,well mumbled most of the time. Even when I upgraded to RC 64ii, then I got my pioneer elite Sc-25. NO more problems. Maybe it's an issue with Yamaha ? Not sure there outstanding recivers .

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you can always slide an rf-7 over in front and try it out as a center channel. that would eliminate the receiver out of the equation. then go from there.

Hey guys what do you think of my 7.1 setup. It consists of 7 rf-7 towers and an rf-7 modified with 2 10" subwoofers instead of the normal woofers. Its rf-7 tastic. Dean worked day and night for 2 months to get all the upgrades around... HA!

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Please tell us more about your room and speaker setup. Is the center in or on a TV stand? Is the stand made of glass? How close are the mains? does the avr have DRC and is it activated? Sometimes the dialogue sounds better with DRC activated. Have you tried a phantom center? This may point to a problem

with the RC 64.

No one suggested turnning up the center 1 or 2 db which usually does not help.

Edited by derrickdj1
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you can always slide an rf-7 over in front and try it out as a center channel. that would eliminate the receiver out of the equation. then go from there.

Hey guys what do you think of my 7.1 setup. It consists of 7 rf-7 towers and an rf-7 modified with 2 10" subwoofers instead of the normal woofers. Its rf-7 tastic. Dean worked day and night for 2 months to get all the upgrades around... HA!

That's fantastic Cosmic but it would likely be best to start a separate thread so we don't end up hijacking the OP's thread. ;)

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20140427_202340_zpsafhjn30g.jpg

Nothing between the speakers & me, the plant gets moved out of the way during video. The RC-64 is under the TV in the cubby & my seating position is about 20 feet directly in front. I have done the Yamaha automatic audio setup. I haven't really fiddled with tone much, everything else sounds great.

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I know space is an issue but the way you have everything set up, leaves a lot to be desired. First off, the DLP needs to be much lower than that (I have owned 6 different top of the line large Mitsubishi DLP's)' the center of the screen should be level with your sitting position. The RF-7's also need to be sitting on the floor, farther apart and toed in towards the listening position. It looks like the lamp and the sub can be moved, depending on WAF.

The center is the reason for this thread but I really don't know why it sounds muffled. If you get a lower stand to optimize the DLP, you can place the RC-64 above the TV with it angled down to the main listening position. I moved my RC-62 II above the TV and it dramatically improved the sound.

With all that said, I am not nearly as knowledgable as most of the members here so I hope they will chime in with their suggestions.

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I agree. I have used every brand of avr and must say at one point just made due with a particular yamaha avr about 5 years ago. Anyhow...My setup at the time a bit comparable with your very setup had the same center discretion as you describe.

Not to knock yamaha as they do produce some very good gear just not avr's in my opinion. If you do stick with your RX-V3900 i would most of all push up the db's up of the center a considerable amount and lower the value of db's a bit in your mains...This was what i had done before selling the whole setup with that particular yamaha rxv avr i had tested(as well as other yamahas even to this day) some years ago. Clarity may not be there although this adjustment should provide optimum use with your equipment for the time being or forever...

I had even used eq's and other equipment to dial in the clarity while using yamaha avr's. I certainly wish you the best and hope it turns out well.

On another note...although your 7's look fantastic on the entertainment stand i would truly consider putting them at floor level and put the flower on there...no offense...they do perform and help create the mains stage much more prevalent on the floor at which point they were designed to be used. This could(possibly will) also help establish the front mains/center sound stage clarity as they were designed/intended to be used...

Once again the best to you...try to switch to the rf7 in the center as scrappy described then use other advice to advance in your audio experience as you do own some of the finest monitors made. Cheers

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The RC-64 is under the TV in the cubby & my seating position is about 20 feet directly in front.
The center is the reason for this thread but I really don't know why it sounds muffled.

Maybe the fact that Hypoxia's listening position is 20 feet away has something to do with it. A very narrow soundstage is most likely created with the RF-7's so close together.

If possible, jack the center volume up a little, take the RF-7's off the stand, and move your seating position a bout 5 feet closer.

Bill

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Always a slippery slope posting a photo! Willand, I understand the narrow sound stage but have difficulty thinking that causes the center channel clarity problem. I would think that speaker is such a monster that my neighbor down the road should be able to hear and understand it. Derrickdj1, yes it has the DRC turned on. Haven't tried a phantom center, that's an idea as well as Scrappy's suggestion. K5SS, the DLP is tilted down which works very well in my recliner. You should see the bedroom TV, it's up on the pot shelf & tilted down also. All those years in hotel rooms, never did like looking through my knees at the TV. ;) I keep hearing Yahama being repeated & that may be the problem but that's a big step. I keep looking at Emotiva's web page though.

I know, I know, I know the speaker positioning sucks but it's better than it was when they were behind the furniture. She doesn't mess with my work shop & is very vocal about her area. I haven't been able to design a muffler that works on her but I'm still working on it. Have you ever tried to put a muzzle on a tiger?

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you can always slide an rf-7 over in front and try it out as a center channel. that would eliminate the receiver out of the equation. then go from there.

Hey guys what do you think of my 7.1 setup. It consists of 7 rf-7 towers and an rf-7 modified with 2 10" subwoofers instead of the normal woofers. Its rf-7 tastic. Dean worked day and night for 2 months to get all the upgrades around... HA!

That's fantastic Cosmic but it would likely be best to start a separate thread so we don't end up hijacking the OP's thread. ;)

can you post pictures of this setup in another Thread I'd like to take a look at that.
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It was a little joke in response to scrappy suggesting rf-7 to the center. I dont think I would have room to do 7 rf-7 towers. Interesting idea though. I didn't want to derail the thread, I was just trying to add a little flavor. I am curious though, I know it is important to hardcore audiophiles, but I would imagine the 7s could more than pick up the slack for the vocal highs the center seems to be dropping? With such a narrow array, i myself would have trouble noticing I wasn't getting the highs. I know it really isn't adding much to the topic...

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My bad...I missed the joke lol

I see that scrappy was suggesting the receiver could be the cause but actually using the rf-7 to eliminate the receiver being the cause. I just took that as moving the rf-7 literally to the center. I am still pretty new, and haven't learned how you guys troubleshoot sound issues. You can go ahead and throw the dunce hat on me, clearly I am getting schooled lol.

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No dunce hat needed lol I know you have been building a theater and wasn’t sure if you went with a full (7) rf-7 setup. I was curious more than anything as I know some people use a 3rd rf-7 as a center speaker. I also missed the joke but your suggestions to helping others audio issues are most welcomed as with some many components in all of our setups it can vary as to what is the problem. As to the OP my father uses my old RC-62 center and it is in a similar placement being enclosed in cabinet or entertainment center. We had to adjust the height on the front of it to fire more at the ear and that helped a little. He then used an older Denon receiver with no room equalization. Once we put a newer receiver in and ran some room correction software it cleared the speaker right up. can’t see you listening position or the rest of the room but it most likely is the Yamaha and some equalization may be needed with those RF-7 standing freely and openly on the sides the open it may be difficult for it in its location paired with that Yammy. I vote +1 for it being the Yamaha needed tested. The original RC-64 is clearly an exceptionally designed center and should be able to produce clear crisp highs having owned one for years I can vouch for it. just curious why you have the RF-7s so high with the hors that high it may be shooting some of the most important information from your movies and music above the listeners ears though they look sharp up there

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20 ft is nothing for an rc7 and rf7's. Adjusting to get the correct imaging would be a little more difficult although not impossible by any means. I believe it is a fact that 30 ft is the recommended maximum(at least with some gear)...or at least was a few years ago. Not to say that there are not indeed 45ft listening distances with such a setup.

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