mike stehr Posted March 15, 2015 Share Posted March 15, 2015 I'm gonna take some high res photos and upload them, maybe someone can provide insight as to what I did wrong. OK. Would I still get good sound if I put the crossover network on a wood board, but orient everything as close as possible to how Klipsch had it originally on the PCB? I have no idea...I doubt it would make "bad" sound. Also, if the new solder is touching a trace, could that be the problem? Yeah, that could be a big problem. Especially if the solder is touching a trace it shouldn't be touching...you may be shorting something together. Check with the schematic that has been posted. Follow through the schematic, and compare it with the PCB. That PCB board isn't too complex, and should be fairly easy to figure out what trace goes where. Once you get an understanding of what trace goes where, you should be able to figure out whether or not a trace has been shorted, or open. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 16, 2015 Share Posted March 16, 2015 (edited) No offense to the OP, but I don't think he has the skill-sets to do some of the things you're suggesting - maybe I'm wrong. I alluded to this earlier in a diplomatic kind of way, (and several posts elsewhere using examples such as this to explain why Al and me don't support DIY efforts). Okay, he might have lifted a trace, but in all likelihood, unless he completely lit up the board, it should still work. The "traces" are really rather large areas of foil that support connectivity for several parts - it's very difficult to spread solder across two neighboring boundaries. So, if he didn't heat sink the parts, I suspect lack of experience caused him to short one or more of the caps. He may also simply have leads touching, also causing a short - and the easiest to fix. Pictures would really be helpful Edited March 16, 2015 by Crankysoldermeister 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjai18 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 I'll get some pictures today. What would cause a cap to short? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 If you do them yourself and screw them up, it will be virtually impossible to repair them through internet correspondence. Prophetic don't you think? I hope you get them fixed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 This is probably fixable, but we need those pictures. If you keep the heat on the lead too long (because you can't get the solder to flow), you can damage the cap, or "short it". It will then no longer pass a signal. You can also short the signal by allowing a negative lead and a positive lead to make contact with one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjai18 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Okay, here's a few pictures I took. A little piece of the green PCB board started to come up when I removed the solder on the 12uf cap. It also did take a while to melt down the solder. Hey cranky, how much would it cost me to send you all five crossovers, and the upgraded parts I bought, for you to do the soldering work? P.S. You guys were indeed correct, you all saw this coming. Edited March 17, 2015 by ninjai18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjai18 Posted March 17, 2015 Author Share Posted March 17, 2015 (edited) Okay, so I do believe the PCB is messed up beyond my skills to repair. I took all the crossover components off the board and have decided to put all parts on a little wood board with hot melt glue. I just need to know how to wire the compenents up to one another, how to wire the woofers and tweeters to the crossover, and how to wire the crossover to the speaker + - terminals. I figure it's a good time to learn how to do this anyway, it'll be fun! Edited March 17, 2015 by ninjai18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Hey cranky, how much would it cost me to send you all five crossovers, and the upgraded parts I bought, for you to do the soldering work? If you go that route (highly recommended) it's best to contact him through his links in his signature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moray james Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Okay, here's a few pictures I took. A little piece of the green PCB board started to come up when I removed the solder on the 12uf cap. It also did take a while to melt down the solder. Hey cranky, how much would it cost me to send you all five crossovers, and the upgraded parts I bought, for you to do the soldering work? P.S. You guys were indeed correct, you all saw this coming. from what I can see it does not look like you damaged the board. You did not get the tools you needed and you did not do any practice at all so why you would expect a better outcome is beyond me. You need a proper temp controlled solder station and a good solder sucker a manual one is just fine a Soldapullit id what I use. Get some dead crossovers and practice on them till you know how to do this. there are you tube videos you can study. Don't make unnecessary work for yourself just put the parts back on your board and leave well enough alone. Get some lacquer thinner and Q-Tips and wash all that flux off the board now and again when you are done. with any luck your caps are all fine. Best regards Moray James. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Wow... I'm at a loss for words, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 We have no real time to work this -- we're just too backed up. It looks like you didn't use enough heat, which means the solder didn't flow -- so you left the tip on the pads for too long. While not enough heat to melt the solder properly, it was enough to lift the foil and cook some of the caps. I solder with 850 degrees, using WBT silver bearing solder and/or Kester 63/37 "eutectic" solder. A eutectic solder goes from solid to liquid in one stage. 60/40 has a "sludge" state, where the solder is both solid and liquid at the same time (probably poorly worded). It was used almost exclusively for audio in the past, and many failures can probably be attributed to its use. During the sludge state, there can be no movement whatsoever, and any movement during the cooling state will result in a cold solder joint, which is not always detectable visually, and these joints will easily crack and break under stress -- like being dropped on your porch by the fine folks of FedEx and UPS. So, do not use 60/40. After experimenting and testing everything, NASA uses only Sn63Pb37 (63/37). You also want to try and remove as much as the old solder as possible. To be RoHS compliant, newer assemblies use a lead free variant called sn96 (sac305). You don't want to mix sn96 with Sn63Pb37. Even if the solder you are dealing with is the same as you're going to use -- you should remove as much as you can before you begin. Contrary to what some say, especially around here -- soldering is not "easy". Even some of my joints are suspect from time to time, and I have to struggle with redoing the joint or moving on. I know it's not a cold or dry joint, but it just doesn't look right. So I'm tempted to redo it, which is a pain. I know there are some who would say just to reheat the joint and add more solder, but I'm not comfortable with the practice. It's a common thing to do with those who work on old radios and such, but adding 60/40 to old nastified 50+ year old 60/40 just seems like bad practice. I've read different things about this, and I've just concluded that it's something to be avoided -- always remove the old solder and clean the area with denatured alcohol. So, there is a lot to know, and all we've done is cover one or two aspects of soldering. Always heat sink the leads (which protects the delicate film, which can easily deform), use 63/37, and then get in and get out. I'd be happy to write up a quote, but it'll be more than I just had the PCBs to work with, and I can't bump you to the front of the line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaddeus Smith Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 So am I still the ******* for recommending against DIY on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 So am I still the ******* for recommending against DIY on this? I thought I was but I'll share the love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Moray has some good points, especially regarding having the right tools and practice. I also think one should able to trace out simple circuits, read a schematic, understand a little bit about what the parts do, etc. a decent online tutorial on soldering helps too, which is what I did. I had the advantage of endless hours on the phone with Bob and Al too -- I try to pass some of it on when I can. I think we need a basic checklist for people that they can use to help them determine whether or not they should be tackling a project, or saving up to have someone else do it for them. The pictures aren't that great, the boards might be salvageable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toolz Posted March 17, 2015 Share Posted March 17, 2015 Contrary to what some say, especially around here -- soldering is not "easy". Even some of my joints are suspect from time to time, and I have to struggle with redoing the joint or moving on. I know it's not a cold or dry joint, but it just doesn't look right. So I'm tempted to redo it, which is a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjai18 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) So am I still the ******* for recommending against DIY on this? I thought I was but I'll share the love. How about we cool it with tearing me apart about it? Just take a chill pill guys. It's not like I messed up your personal speakers. You don't want to help? Fine. But I don't need lectures. I was aware of the risk going in. I appreciate the help, but please cool it with that. Edited March 18, 2015 by ninjai18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjai18 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Moray has some good points, especially regarding having the right tools and practice. I also think one should able to trace out simple circuits, read a schematic, understand a little bit about what the parts do, etc. a decent online tutorial on soldering helps too, which is what I did. I had the advantage of endless hours on the phone with Bob and Al too -- I try to pass some of it on when I can. I think we need a basic checklist for people that they can use to help them determine whether or not they should be tackling a project, or saving up to have someone else do it for them. The pictures aren't that great, the boards might be salvageable. I honestly don't think it is. There's stuff you can't see in the pictures. Would you mind helping me through how to connect the parts up on a piece of wood? That is the route I really want to go now. I don't have the time to wait in line to have them done for me. I also don't have old crossovers to work on. I'd like to learned how to wire them up on a piece of pine board, it sounds really fun and doesn't look too hard. I just need to know what connects to what. Edited March 18, 2015 by ninjai18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mxr dad Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 Its cool Ninja, they didnt mean any disrespect. I cant knock you for trying. You were made aware of the risks and decided to roll the dice. Its not the end of the world, these guys will get cha fixed up. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninjai18 Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Its cool Ninja, they didnt mean any disrespect. I cant knock you for trying. You were made aware of the risks and decided to roll the dice. Its not the end of the world, these guys will get cha fixed up. Thanks man, I appreciate the kind words. I really need my fellow Klipsch fanatics to help me here! I am without speaker, i'm dyin here, I need my speakers man! On the plus side, once I have them all wired back up, they will sound better than ever from being without them for so long. Edited March 18, 2015 by ninjai18 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted March 18, 2015 Share Posted March 18, 2015 I really need my fellow Klipsch fanatics to help me here! We tried to help you by giving you advice which you ignored. Now you're asking for more advice. Have you taken any of Moray or Deans advice as to practicing and obtaining the proper equipment? I would think that would be a good place to start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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