Digital Stylus Force Scale

[artto]

If you've been wanting to get one of those digital stylus force scales but have been put off by the price, try an eBay search under jewelry scales or kitchen scales.

 

I bought mine from tmart.com for $25. It's identical to the one Music Direct is selling for $80.

 

http://www.tmart.com/20g-x-0.001g-LCD-Digital-Jewelry-Pocket-Scale_p125854.html

 

I've bought a lot of hard to find things at tmart at really good prices like USB Lightscribe DVDRW/CDRW drives. I also got a nice Deitz jewelry magnifying glass for examining the stylus for $10.

[Schu]

aren't they like $10 on eBay?

[artto]

aren't they like $10 on eBay?

Yeah, but be careful where you order from. The sellers are usually in places like Hong Kong or Taiwan. I don't trust any financial transactions through those places in light of all the credit card and account hacking that's been going on recently. For 10 or 15 bucks more I can get it from a US source that I trust and still get it at 1/3 the audiophile store price. Trying to resolve issues through eBay/PayPal can be a real pain.

Edited September 18, 2014 by artto

[jason str]

Mine is from Walmart.

 

Link

[thebes]

Here's a really big problem with a lot of thosedigital  jewel scales, the needle drop point sits too far above where the record would actually rest.  Because of this the pressure force at the point of the record is off.  These devices are meant to weigh jewelry, not set tracking force.  If where you drop the needle is higher than a regular standard record, bnot a audiophile pressing. then your tracking force is going to be off.

 

Me, I'm a big fan of Shure's analogue gauge. Built specifically to do what it does. Cheap for what they do and will never lose their accuracy due to battery power, cheap components etc.

 

This is really a bad place to go cheap if you are really into having your records sound right.

 

Throw that digital crap away and spend the $25.

[jason str]

Here's a really big problem with a lot of thosedigital  jewel scales, the needle drop point sits too far above where the record would actually rest.  Because of this the pressure force at the point of the record is off.  These devices are meant to weigh jewelry, not set tracking force.  If where you drop the needle is higher than a regular standard record, bnot a audiophile pressing. then your tracking force is going to be off.

 

Me, I'm a big fan of Shure's analogue gauge. Built specifically to do what it does. Cheap for what they do and will never lose their accuracy due to battery power, cheap components etc.

 

This is really a bad place to go cheap if you are really into having your records sound right.

 

Throw that digital crap away and spend the $25.

 

The only way the drop point would be higher is if you put the scale directly on the platter, even if it was off a tiny fraction of a gram i dont think it would would make much difference.

 

Had my scale for a while now and its as accurate as it was when new, i check it every time before use for good measure.

 

Good for more than measuring tracking force too.

[jimjimbo]

Good for more than measuring tracking force too.

 

Yea, I use mine for weighing bullets....   

[Taz]

 

Good for more than measuring tracking force too.

 

Yea, I use mine for weighing bullets....   

 

Powder scales for reloading. 

[artto]

I've had the Shure tracking force gauge for decades. Works fine, albeit a little clumsy.

 

The digital jewelry scale in question has the scale area approximately the same height as a record. I calibrated & used it for the first time yesterday and it is indeed much more accurate and far less clumsy than the old Shure balance & weights.

 

Anyway, the point I was trying to make is don't waste your money on these things at audiophile stores where the prices for exactly the same product are jacked up 6x to 20x or more.

[Wrinkles]

Guys, if you want one, then look at this one. It works great.

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-ACP-200-Digital/dp/B003STEIYY

I set up my daughter's turntable over last Christmas with the old trusty Shure balance model at 1.25 gms. or as close as I could eyeball it using that model's scale lines on the balance beam.

I then used the ACP-200 ($14.95)to check the Shure model and it was 0.02 gms off from what the Shure model set it up to be. The digital scale placed the cartridge about 1/2 inch higher than the Shure had it. As both are accurate, the 1/2 inch did not make really any difference. The ACP-200 accuracy is ± 0.02 gms. The Shure accuracy is up to your eyeball accuracy.

The ACP-200 accuracy, if questioned, can be calibrated using two 100 gm. weights at $5.22 each:

http://www.amazon.com/American-Weigh-Scales-100WGT-Calibration/dp/B002SVUBYE/ref=pd_sim_k_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0XAAJCKA8VRBENRAR4AT

The top of the APC-200 is a slippery brushed stainless steel metal, so I placed a small piece of a broken 78 rpm record on it, zeroed out that weight using the button on the APC-200 so it read 0.00 grams with that piece of broken record on it. Pacing the needle in the record groove keeps the cartridge from sliding off the edge of the scale due to anti-skating forces.

It works well for me, but as it turns out, the Shure model would have been enough. I gave the Shure model to my daughter for her future cartridge replacements if desired.

For its simplicity and cost, it is hard to beat.

While typing this, I pulled the scale out for the first time since I used it last Christmas, placed a 100 gm weight on it and it read 99.94 gms. I put the scale in calibration mode and calibrated it in 30 seconds. Now, placing the 100 gm. weight back on it, it reads 100.01 gms which is within its stated expected accuracy.

Enjoy.

Other than owning this scale and calibration weights, I have no affiliatin with the company that makes or sells this product.

[khornbred]

all the record stores in my area have them...over in the paraphernalia section. as a side note, stores here in Colorado now have signs posted near the smoking accessories stating "any mention of using these devices with tobacco will result in the denial of service" and "these are BONGS not WATERPIPES!"

[thebes]

Apparently you guys think you are lining these digital scales up right, so I'm not inclined to argue about it.  The Shure guide is built to simulate the thickness of a record and should be placed on the mat, not the platter, or on top of a record.  If you are putting a piece of broken record on top of a scale that may already be thicker than a regular record you are in actuality creating a tracking force that is lower than you think it is.  This will usually effect the lower end of the musical register.

 

Also tracking force is a range, not a rule cast in concrete. Most carts offer a range of roughly a half a gram.  For example, the very common Denon 103R moving coil specifies a range of 2.3 to 2.7 with 2.5 grams being the recommended tracking force.  Many track these carts as high as 3.0 depending upon arms and listening preferences.

 

Finally I do find these gauges very useful since many arms do not set tracking force correctly, and using them will tell you if the arm's settings are accurate or not.

[Wrinkles]

Thebes,

What you said irritated me like chaffing in my shorts. Not that it was you, just the comments. Could have been said by anyone. Sorry about the mental picture.

So, I had to prove it. After struggling with my long ago Trigonometric skills I realized I probably do not have enough information. Short for I am in over my head and I can't figure it out.

So, I pondered.

I took my digital scale and placing it on the turntable raising the arm about 5-15 degrees higher than the record angle would be, I measured 1.42 gms. I was shooting for an alignment of 1.5 grams initially, so I'll adjust for that later.

Removing the platter, and then placing the scale under the stylus, I realized the scale would be at virtually the same height as the top of the record when it is on the turntable, so the stylus angle would be very very close to the proper angle. My measurement was 1.21 grams. Thats a big difference.

So, Thebes thanks for your input to this thread. You are the reason my chaffing is gone.

I hope this helps others when using a digital scale.

[thebes]

So Wrinkles, this means that basically I'm your Johnson and Johnson Baby Powder.

 

Gee, I think that's a compliment.

 

Kidding aside, it took me awhile to catch on too.  I think of it as force applied.  If you've got a ball point pen and a pad and you write something with very hard pressure on the top sheet of the pad, as you go deeper down the sheets the indent the pen makes will eventually fade away.  Same principal.

 

Since many, if not all of these, digital scales were not designed for use as a tracking force gauge, you have to make sure they line up fairly closely to the thickness of a record to get into accurate range of the proper tracking force.  If they do line up properly then they should work as well as a mechanical gauge.

 

By-the-by.  1/4 gram is a fairly large difference, so you should hear a difference, more than likely, better bass.

Edited September 29, 2014 by thebes

[seti]

I still use one of these.

 

[ricktate]

I still use my old shure gauge I got over 30 years ago for like 12 bucks. Seems to work fine Still keep it in the original packing to. Rick

[Schu]

I keep bidding on a shure on ebay but I keep getting out bid to the tune of $30 or more. it's been like this for months.