Vintage Klipsch LaScalas are amazing

[mherzog26]

I wanted to share my experience with my vintage klipsch lascalas since I bought them off a forum member here over the summer.  Listening to these speakers using a 140 x 2 hybrid tube amp has been flat out amazing.  The midrange really makes you feel like the band is in the room.   You can hear every little detail of a recording if its there.  You really here your music over for the first time again.  Its a wall of sound that sounds almost live, just much clearear and non-fatiguing.  I have heard plenty of newer high end speakers, and my next pair is going to be some vintage cornwalls.  I will never look at any other speakers again.  Yes these are big, but if you have the room you must give lascalas a chance.  Bass is there as well (clean bass!)  I have had friends over, and everybody leaves shaking their head in disbelief.  Get you a good tube amp and some old or new lascalas and you will not want to upgrade again.  I do think the hybrid amp is a huge factor in my sound so dont hook up a 40 watt onkyo and expect audio bliss.  I had a 45 x 2 NAD running the lascalas and the hybrid tube amp sounded 20x better.  Thanks and if you are thinking of lascalas, just do it.

 

Matt

[Schu]

stop spreading rumors...

 

 

fyi, get the XO's remade and prepare to be Amazed.

Edited December 23, 2014 by Schu

[dtel]

Welcome, and your right, and so is Schu's fyi idea.

[jimjimbo]

A couple of months ago, I had a couple of old friends down for the weekend.  Both of them are very accomplished musicians, and they also collect and build incredible tube amps.  We spent the weekend listening to all kinds of music through my collection of Heritage and receivers and amps.  At the end of the weekend, my friend Joel said "I need to find a pair of those La Scala's....".  We subsequently did find a pair for him close to where they live, and he is currently in the process of giving them some TLC.  In my mind, a rather glowing recommendation.  

 

Enjoy your La Scala's!

[twistedcrankcammer]

I wanted to share my experience with my vintage klipsch lascalas since I bought them off a forum member here over the summer.  Listening to these speakers using a 140 x 2 hybrid tube amp has been flat out amazing.  The midrange really makes you feel like the band is in the room.   You can hear every little detail of a recording if its there.  You really here your music over for the first time again.  Its a wall of sound that sounds almost live, just much clearear and non-fatiguing.  I have heard plenty of newer high end speakers, and my next pair is going to be some vintage cornwalls.  I will never look at any other speakers again.  Yes these are big, but if you have the room you must give lascalas a chance.  Bass is there as well (clean bass!)  I have had friends over, and everybody leaves shaking their head in disbelief.  Get you a good tube amp and some old or new lascalas and you will not want to upgrade again.  I do think the hybrid amp is a huge factor in my sound so dont hook up a 40 watt onkyo and expect audio bliss.  I had a 45 x 2 NAD running the lascalas and the hybrid tube amp sounded 20x better.  Thanks and if you are thinking of lascalas, just do it.

 

Matt

 

 

Welcome to the forum!

 

That being said, get an old pair of Klipschorn over the Cornwalls if you like clean Bass so much. Nothing cleaner than Horn Bass.

 

 

Roger

Edited January 13, 2015 by twistedcrankcammer

[CECAA850]

Welcome to the forum Matt!  What part of the country are you from?

 

 

Oops, looks like he was a one and doner.

[seti]

Modern Klipsch is going to have a hard time topping Heritage. imho.

[CECAA850]

Modern Klipsch is going to have a hard time topping Heritage. imho.

 

I don't really think that's their goal.

[Guest Steven1963]

Ugh!  Another Klipsch Heritage lover.  Don't these people know we are all really Bose lovers disguising ourselves as Klipsch fanatics?

[erik2A3]

Ah, yes....Bose comparisons...

We have tossed that company name around quite a bit since I joined this forum in 2002. I have owned Klipschorns, two pair of La Scalas, multiple pairs of Heresies, and am presently using split industrial La Scalas and back loaded wide-band horns with Lowther PM5A drivers that alone are in the price range of $2,500/pair for the driver alone. Both the a Klipsch and Lowther systems are driven by a number of single-ended and push-pull tube amps which I built or or completely rebuilt. Primary vinyl based systems with, respectively, a Clearaudio Performance SE and VPI Scout decks. Like most horn systems, we enjoy that very immediate, hair trigger sensitivty that provides such instantaneous transient ability and laser-precision imaging.

To this, I unhesitatingly add that we also have a Bose 901 series VI system, driven by a large transistor amp and valve preamp. The turntable is a Technics SL-1210 MKIV.

I am someone who listens almost exclusively to both modern and classical jazz and classical genres, though I do enjoy a dose of King Crimson, Audio Slave, Tool, Dream Theatre, Genesis (particulalrly Peter Gabriel era), and so forth. I am on my 50s; have played drums and percussion in both rock/fusion and small jazz ensembles, and recently had my hearing tested. I am still able to hear out to the mid to upper teens K-Hertz.

Based on sound quality potential alone, and when properly setup, the Bose 901s with good ancillary equipment can produce an astonishingly realastic presentation, with imaging that is every bit as good as the much larger horn based systems above. They are also capable of low-end response that easily betters both our La Scalas (which I like equally well but for other reasons) and Lowther horns (which have a sensitivity of about 106 dBs/watt). Their high end response is capable of extremely clear and open sound, particularly with plucked guitar, bell work on cymbal, snare drum transients, and so on.

The convenient though rather disparaging rhyme "No highs, no lows, must be Bose" is arguably inaccurate.

Edited January 14, 2015 by erik2A3

[Deang]

What you say is true, but the distortion levels are much higher from those small cones. You must be adding some EQ, because without it, the highs are pretty dry.

[CECAA850]

You must be adding some EQ, because without it, the highs are pretty dry.

 

You can't listen to the 901's without their EQ.  They're flat as a pancake.  I had a pair of the III's and then VI's and could never get them quite right using stands or hanging them from the ceiling and I tried pretty hard.

[Guest Steven1963]

Truly, I can't stand Bose clear back to the early 80s. They are inefficient. They lack clarity and crispness. They are cheaply built and over-hyped. There is a reason you can find a used Bose system for pennies on the dollar.

 

I did give them a try when I bought a pair of their $100 earbuds about 5 years ago for both me and my wife. While they sounded decent, mine shorted out within 6 months and my wife's had the same problem a month or two after that.  So that's the first and last bit of money I will throw away on their products.

 

Besides, every forum needs an antithesis to bash.

Edited January 14, 2015 by Steven1963

[Fjd]

 

Besides, every forum needs an antithesis to bash.

 

 

 

Somewhat like a purgative "two minutes of hate" reminiscent of George Orwell's novel Nineteen Eighty-Four?

[eth2]

I am listening to Endless River right now with a pair of LaScalas, Quicksilver mid monos and a Cary pre. Pretty amazing. I have two sets and am only going to sell one as I love the LaScala.

[erik2A3]

Agreed, La Scalas are outstanding. Some here have thought the big Heritage midrange horns tear one's ears off, as I remember some saying in years gone by....

A larger number of smaller cones is not at all necessarily more prone distortion (I would think both Bose himself and current Bose engineers would be rather aware of the distortion characteristics of this loudspeaker -- don't you think?) The amount of power the 901s can handle without distortion is considerable. There is a major British Hi Fi publication to which I subscribe that reviews vintage gear often, and in one issue devoted a fair amount of space to the 901s. It quite honestly was very favorably reviewed. But of course they are wrong about what they heard and the traits of the speaker they enjoyed.

I loved the Khorns we had for a few years, and in fact miss them very much at times. And yes, there are those who really dislike Bose products (or at least say they do) including the now quite old 901. But guess what? I have been asked by other very serious listeners and audio enthusiasts how and why I could possibly enjoy such ear-splittingly harsh speakers as Klipschorns and La Scalas. And so it goes.

[babadono]

I have been asked by other very serious listeners and audio enthusiasts how and why I could possibly enjoy such ear-splittingly harsh speakers as Klipschorns and La Scalas. And so it goes.

  Really! Wow, I've never had that reaction thrown my way. Perhaps I lead a sheltered life. What I get is more like "That sounds like the band is in the room with us" or "That is so clear sounding" etc....

[eth2]

I don't understand it either. When you talk to people really into audio (except us), you can a minor amount of respect when you talk about your amps, or pre's or DAC's, but when you say Klipsch many of them turn up their noses. I really don't understand.

[jimjimbo]

I don't understand it either. When you talk to people really into audio (except us), you can a minor amount of respect when you talk about your amps, or pre's or DAC's, but when you say Klipsch many of them turn up their noses. I really don't understand.

Probably because they have previously had the Synergy line with questionable crossovers and think that's what Klipsch is....

[Fjd]

First for a quick “Orwellian-like two minutes of hate” moment……

 

 

Walking down the sidewalk, PWK sees Dr. Bose, and then he quickly turns and faces the wall of the building and yells:

 

"Hey Dr. Bose, how's business?"

 

Dr. Bose proceeds to cup his hands around his mouth and yells:

 

"Hey Paul, I can't understand a thing you said"

 

PWK turns towards Dr. Bose, cups his hands around his mouth, and yells:

 

"Have a nice day!"

 

 

 

I loved the Khorns we had for a few years, and in fact miss them very much at times. And yes, there are those who really dislike Bose products (or at least say they do) including the now quite old 901. But guess what? I have been asked by other very serious listeners and audio enthusiasts how and why I could possibly enjoy such ear-splittingly harsh speakers as Klipschorns and La Scalas. And so it goes.

 

 

From time to time I seem to receive the same criticism in regards to my Khorns when outside of the Klipsch forum or the Lansing-Heritage forum.  Many times when I encounter someone with very 'traditional and expensive speakers' I get a reaction such as; "you must be brave to buy those ear-splitters with all of that colored sound and actually willing to talk about them." 

 

In many instances when these 'critics' get a chance to actually listen to something that they are familiar with, they tend to come around. 

 

When I brought my Jubilees over the border from Canada I had the border tied up with traffic about a quarter mile deep as none of the border guards had ever seen speakers that large and had to all gather around the van to "inspect" them. 

 

The guys even called the girls over to the van to question them to see if any of the girls would guess they were even speakers and then proceeded to ask if any would let them in the living room. While they all expressed a level of intrigue, none wanted to own them.

 

Regarding the Bose bashing, while poking around the internet I find pockets of Klipsch bashing too and I suspect that it may be one of those internet phenomena.  In addition, many have not researched and do not realize that Dr. Amar G. Bose attended the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), where he earned a doctoral degree in electrical engineering in 1956 and did a significant amount of research in understanding and attempting to duplicate concert hall acoustics.

 

 

 

 

A larger number of smaller cones is not at all necessarily more prone distortion (I would think both Bose himself and current Bose engineers would be rather aware of the distortion characteristics of this loudspeaker -- don't you think?) The amount of power the 901s can handle without distortion is considerable. There is a major British Hi Fi publication to which I subscribe that reviews vintage gear often, and in one issue devoted a fair amount of space to the 901s. It quite honestly was very favorably reviewed. But of course they are wrong about what they heard and the traits of the speaker they enjoyed.
 

 

 

 

Just some random thoughts while on the topic....... 

 

Acknowledging the different paths taken, PWK and Dr. Bose looked at aspects of the problem from different points of view that were also different from the standard of many designers of the time and both came up with radically different answers.  While the paradigm pursued by Dr. Bose is less than perfect, his execution of the 901 loudspeaker only seemed to scratch the surface in relation to the importance of room acoustics. Nevertheless, Dr. Bose overcame significant problems other designers had using the conventional wisdom of the time that most of these designers probably never even thought about, let alone tried to solve.

 

Since it is always about compromise, the limitations of the 901 are just "different" than conventional speakers and we will find that some listeners would rather live with those limitations rather than what the “audio enthusiast” considers acceptable.  That’s life and it isn’t going to change any time soon.

 

As alluded to earlier, the interesting aspect of Dr. Bose’ research that he examined and wrote about in his ‘white paper’ was the question of understanding and attempting to duplicate concert hall acoustics.  For anyone that should read the papers, there is a lot of thought provoking insight. 

 

While I fully realize that the Khorn uses the room corners, a significant aspect of the 901 is that it was the first (and maybe the only) speaker that was intentionally designed to be totally integrated with a room's acoustics and the end performance of the speakers entirely depends upon the skill of the person doing the room integration. 

 

A great source and a great room implentation will result in great sound reproduction.  A crap recording and crap consderation of the interaction with the room will result in crap sound.  Gee, where have I heard that before?

 

Then let’s not forget that the measuring tools and insights that we have today were not available back in 1968. 

 

For example;

 

The notion of a laptop computer was inconceivable.

 

Does anyone remember the four-function calculator that cost well over $100 in 1968 dollars?

 

For the computers that did exist, the programming was done using Fortran and consisted of using “punch cards,” trying to compile the program, receiving a list of errors, resolving errors over and over again until the program ran. 

 

Pull two quarters out of your pocket and you could buy a gallon of gas and a pack of cigarettes.

 

McDonalds did NOT have a value menu of dollar items, but had an advertising campaign of; "You get change back from your dollar" for the entire meal.

 

Solid state amplifiers were mostly crap and did not have nearly enough juice to truly recognize the bass the 901 could generate.

 

Consistent with Dean, I believe that the original Bose 901 and 901 Series II definitely needed some type of tweeter arrangement for the high frequencies as they tended to be somewhat rolled off (K77 anyone?); however, with the appropriate amplifier, they are capable of deep bass.   

 

While I believe that the total area of the drivers have an aggregate area that is approximately the same as a 15" woofer, I believe that the maximum excursion is probably only about 3 mm, which would probably mean that several would need to be stacked for high SPL output.

 

I seem to remember reading about measurements taken by the old Hirsch-Hauk Labs (of Audio League Report fame) when the 901s first came out that showed that at high volume they would have output down to 26Hz and at lower volume to about 23Hz.

 

If I’m remembering correctly, to Dean’s point, the 901s had about 10% THD, which would have been about twice an Acoustic Research 12" woofer of that day, but most listeners could not hear the distortion of either the 901 or Acoustic Research. 

 

In addition to needing a perfect room for optimal play, to even try to equalize the system to be flat took significant amounts of power that far exceeded most amps of the late 1960s.  For example, to generate the same output at 30Hz that a person could get with one watt at 1 KHz, without doing the math, I suspect it would take a 10 dB boost and about 500 watts or more.  The catch being that the 901 was only rated at 270 continuous watts, hence the reference above to stacking a few to achieve loud and deep bass.

 

I realize the whole Consumer Reports fiasco with the 901; however, I suspect a significant portion of the backlash from the “audio enthusiast” may have ramped up on the internet more from the "Acoustimass" systems with the infamous “bass module” in relation to the pricing and mass market appeal that those little black cubes captured. 

 

However, the interesting aspect is that the criticism generally begins and ends with Bose amongst “audio enthusiast” when in reality I believe that the accusation can be levied against any HTiB system and any micro speaker system produced as they ALL demonstrate the same or similar limitations in terms of sound reproduction. 

 

There again, there is no ‘free lunch’ and with any micro system a person will 'pay a price' in terms of performance for the smaller size and it comes down to that person’s individual needs, desires and priorities.

 

Over on AVS, many home theatre enthusiasts state that tower speakers are the best sounding while on this forum, yet others will have nothing less than “pro cinema” in their homes.  However, to the general consumer there seems to be just as many people that think large towers look like crap and aesthetics come into the decision making process no matter how much they like to deny it.  Just look around at how many blame it on WAF.

 

During the CES threads, I found it interesting how many people on this forum did not take the time to understand the broader Klipsch target market for the core products and were very critical of the CES show.  If I should find myself in the market for tower speakers, those Reference Premiere sure would be at the top of my list.

 

In many respects the same goes for Bose as their target market is definitely not the “audio enthusiast” that is interested in specifications, which may be more of the reason why they don't publish specifications.  Essentially, they don't have to because people are still buying the product in huge volumes and they are NOT after the niche market of the “audio enthusiast.”  I suspect that most who buy Bose do so for convenience and aesthetics and may just be looking for some level of "pleasing-to-them" sound. 

 

I'm just wondering how close Apple came to buying Bose instead of Beats.....