DizRotus Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) There are way too many variables to be scientific, but it certainly seems like adding a second pair of Anarchy Exodus tapped horn subs improved everything, not just the bass. The mids and highs, as well as imaging are all better. The subjective impression is that there was more bass with only a pair of subs, but the bass is more natural with 4.To add to the unscientific methodology, this weekend I finally got around to adding the Eminence APT 50 (same as Crites but without the drop-in EV-type lens) tweeters with baby cheeks lenses to my RS 40-1197 single drivers. The shimmer of cymbals is just that much better than the single drivers can do alone. It really is "stone soup" to even refer to them as "single drivers" after bringing the tapped horn subs and horn loaded tweeters online.The final variable is using Pono to provide the signal. It is easy for anyone to differentiate between the good sound of the MP3 version of a song and the high resolution version. So far, without knowing which is which, everyone prefers the high resolution version, even if unable to articulate why. Edited December 30, 2014 by DizRotus 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 From what I have read 4 subs is the way to go as it does make things seem more natural. I am waiting to do 4 subs in my set ups when I can rearrange everything to accomodate them. I don't understand 3/4 of the science behind it, but hearing it makes me a believer. From what I read and was told,it fills in the room gaps better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jjptkd Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 There are way too many variables to be scientific, but it certainly seems like adding a second pair of Anarchy Exodus tapped horn subs improved everything, not just the bass. The mids and highs, as well as imaging are all better. I felt / feel the same way after adding the Ultra 2 subs to my system, actually feel like my Chorus II's may somehow be over kill now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhenry Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Hey Neil, I have got to hear that! And you're right on with your assessment with having 4 subs, it took me some time to find the right placement but once I got them in the right locations it is fantastic. I have the THX Ultra 2's and they recommend putting them in pairs next to each other and I have to admit that they work best when set up that way. I ended up with two behind my couch and two next to my couch built into the wall (you'll see it soon) and it was so easy to set these up with the external amps and crossovers and the front firing allowed me to build them into the wall. I'm looking forward to hearing the Pono, it sounds like you are impressed with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bhenry Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 jjptkd, I was starting to think that my Klioschorns might be kind of too much and thought about selling them and going with RF7II's but I have changed my mind. I'm keeping these behemoths! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 Brett, Before you're allowed in our basement, Nancy will require me to "stop playing with speakers" and fix the place up. She makes the furnace guy wear a blindfold until he's got his hands on the furnace. She's also ordered me to "eat something" next time I'm at your place. If you can be ready on short notice, after you're sworn to secrecy, I'll send Nancy to visit her mother in Farmington and sneak you into the mess. I'm looking forward to seeing and hearing your post-diluvian setup. I'll bring Pono. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 It makes perfect sense. Less cancellation and phase issues should clean everything up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willland Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I like my 4 subs. Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Full disclosure . . . the APT tweeters were operational for only a few days before I powered the 2 subs behind the couch. Nevertheless, the 2 added subs improved everything, not just the bass. The attachments confirm that it's a small space. You can also see that it's a space with little regard to WAF. Note the 40 year-old Legnano (Campagnolo) bike as art. The subs are each 8 ohm,wired in series as pairs (16 ohm), then parallel, so the amp sees 8 ohm. I plan to try using a second amp, so that each amp sees a parallel pair at 4 ohms. The limited space provides little opportunity to experiment with sub placement. The front subs are in the corners with the mouths facing the center. The rear subs are behind the couch and are back to back and centered left to right with the mouths facing outward. Edited December 31, 2014 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derrickdj1 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Placement is not as big of an issue with 4 subs spread around the room. Bass SQ is the big prize. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) A "big prize" it is.It's somewhat counter-intuitive. Why don't the relatively long bass waves sloshing back and forth in the small space cancel each other out? Edited December 30, 2014 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 You're basically eliminating nulls. Drop a rock in a puddle. Lots of waves. Drop 4 rocks, more waves, less deep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Great analogy Carl. Thanks. By the way, my wife holds you responsible for the 4 subs. So do I. THANKS! Edited December 30, 2014 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I do what I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 I don't even want to get two subwoofers... NOW WE'RE TALKING ABOUT HAVING TO GET FOUR OF THEM? OMG! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paducah Home Theater Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Go to the subwoofer forum, look for the "all about that bass" thread, read the long article attached, things will either make more sense or you'll just be more confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted December 30, 2014 Author Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) You mean this one? Harman White Paper.pdf Edited December 30, 2014 by DizRotus Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wvu80 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 (edited) Despite the Halo Effect (things sound better because you expect them to sound better), I don't think the increased number of subs adding to the overall SQ is your imagination. Others seem to think the 2 extra subs can account for the increased clarity and they might be right. IMO you have introduced too many variables (2 subs, new tweeter drivers, new horn lens and new input source) to ascribe the increased SQ to just one thing. It sounds to me like you have made a series of incredibly good decisions. Edited December 30, 2014 by wvu80 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eth2 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Full disclosure . . . the APT tweeters were operational for only a few days before I powered the 2 subs behind the couch. Nevertheless, the 2 added subs improved everything, not just the bass. The attachments confirm that it's a small space. You can also see that it's a space with little regard to WAF. Note the 40 year-old Legano (Campagnolo) bike as art. The subs are each 8 ohm,wired in series as pairs (16 ohm), then parallel, so the amp sees 8 ohm. I plan to try using a second amp, so that each amp sees a parallel pair at 4 ohms. The limited space provides little opportunity to experiment with sub placement. The front subs are in the corners with the mouths facing the center. The rear subs are behind the couch and are back to back and centered left to right with the mouths facing outward. Look at what those four subs did to the bicycle! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Earl, you need 4 subs. Get busy. (I was never here obey the voice in your head) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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