tnr Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 You don't like the all channels stereo on the Pioneer? Trying the EXT. STEREO mode now. That one? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Mono rules. Allan, Great to know you still check in. Hope the film business has picked back up for you. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 I listened to CD's and Pandora in "7 Stereo" 90% of the time with my 11 year old Outlaw processor and my reference 7.1 setup. I think it was Cirrus Surround technology. I liked it. It crapped out and I swapped it out with a Pioneer Elite AVR a couple months back, and it does not have this format so I have been listening in stereo mode, but it falls short in my room and I miss the enveloping 7 stereo format. I haven't has a lot of time to explore, but based on brief listening of the other available formats, none sound as good as the 7 stereo mode the Outlaw offered. I had a 990 and it was really good in any musical format, one of the best multi ch. Streaming formats work great for multi ch stereo, nas, usb, vtuner etc... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 For me, I listen to 2-channel for music so that is where my focus is. I generally only listen to multi-channel with movies. When I am listening to my main system, it's generally a sit down event for me. I'll sit in the perfect spot and listen away for hours. Before I know it, it's 3 hours past my bedtime and I still want to listen to just one more song... We don't have any dedicated mono listeners left? We used to have a few. how would one go about that with stereo source material and amps? One speaker, one amp, or one side of an amp, flip the preamp into MONO, and sit back and enjoy. "Mono switch?" you say? What's that? Old school preamps all had Stereo/Mono switches, but I don't think the new Class D amps have it. You can also just move both speakers right next to each other -- voila, you have mono sound if you're at least a few feet away (that may not be feasible with Klipschorns of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russ69 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 ... I began my audio hobby in 1968 with JBL 44s, and have a permanent soft spot for the speakers of that era....Get a pair of JBL L-200s, you can use them as a walk-up bar when you don't have them cranked up, lol.I've been trying to snag a pair of L200s for about a year on local Craig list. [emoji22] That is one of the great speakers systems. My buddy has a pair that he bought new and never thought about getting another speaker. Good hunting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mdross1 Posted January 17, 2015 Share Posted January 17, 2015 Ok, go ahead and make fun of me for being a geek. I guess I am a geek also. Our living room is wired for surround sound and for a while had all the speakers hooked up call us old fashioned but we got tired of it. And old fashioned too. I just happen to like multichannel music also for some recordings. Bill Actually I like the multichannel but being weaned on stereo it just seems less confusing when working around the house or out in the shop. Isn't this part of what makes the world go round. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TJIann Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 For putting the setting on "all channel stereo" ,that's great for when your just using it as background.I could never critically listen in all channel stereo. No that sounds horrible. I love the sound of stereo recordings when I select "Enhanced Stereo" which is my NAD T175HD pre/pro's implementation of "all channel stereo". The sound really envelopes the listener while maintaining spot on imaging with a huge soundstage. The NAD's version is leaps and bounds better than any other brands AllCh.St. that I have ever heard. Bill I started using my "enhanced stereo" setting on my Outlaw Audio preamp. I have Cornwall IIs front, Heresy rears, and Heresy center. I've never heard music sound better. As an example, I recently picked up the Genesis early years (Gabriel-era albums) vinyl box set. I sit in the sweet spot and listen to these albums and pick up nuances of the music I never heard before coming from the various speakers. Sound awesome in regular stereo through just the Cornwalls as well, but that much better from all the speakers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) Why would a single speaker be more coherent than two if the setup is correct? I am asking academically as my system responds as a single speaker, a phantom of pure sounding point source, on mono material. I've had people look for a speaker in the center the sense is so strong. Dave Edited January 18, 2015 by Mallette Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I can see what you are getting at, but as I've said, it simply doesn't happen in my space. The "image" is absolutely purely dead center in a phantom speaker. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I find JRiver does a fantastic job of converting 2 channel files to 5.1 (and even 7.1 though I currently have the back speakers disconnected). When done well I find that far more immersive than stereo. However it does not work for me for records, only digital files. Again the setup needs to be just right. It sounds dumb with my living room KG setup, but with the basement QP system the sound is stunning. I still am amazed when I sit down at night how good it sounds. JRiver also gives you lots of variations on the effect as well so it can be tweaked until right. For me there is no longer any imaginary sound stage, there is a real one instead. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) For putting the setting on "all channel stereo" ,that's great for when your just using it as background.I could never critically listen in all channel stereo. No that sounds horrible. I love the sound of stereo recordings when I select "Enhanced Stereo" which is my NAD T175HD pre/pro's implementation of "all channel stereo". The sound really envelopes the listener while maintaining spot on imaging with a huge soundstage. The NAD's version is leaps and bounds better than any other brands AllCh.St. that I have ever heard. Bill I started using my "enhanced stereo" setting on my Outlaw Audio preamp. I have Cornwall IIs front, Heresy rears, and Heresy center. I've never heard music sound better. As an example, I recently picked up the Genesis early years (Gabriel-era albums) vinyl box set. I sit in the sweet spot and listen to these albums and pick up nuances of the music I never heard before coming from the various speakers. Sound awesome in regular stereo through just the Cornwalls as well, but that much better from all the speakers. For putting the setting on "all channel stereo" ,that's great for when your just using it as background.I could never critically listen in all channel stereo. No that sounds horrible. I love the sound of stereo recordings when I select "Enhanced Stereo" which is my NAD T175HD pre/pro's implementation of "all channel stereo". The sound really envelopes the listener while maintaining spot on imaging with a huge soundstage. The NAD's version is leaps and bounds better than any other brands AllCh.St. that I have ever heard. Bill I started using my "enhanced stereo" setting on my Outlaw Audio preamp. I have Cornwall IIs front, Heresy rears, and Heresy center. I've never heard music sound better. As an example, I recently picked up the Genesis early years (Gabriel-era albums) vinyl box set. I sit in the sweet spot and listen to these albums and pick up nuances of the music I never heard before coming from the various speakers. Sound awesome in regular stereo through just the Cornwalls as well, but that much better from all the speakers. bump Edited January 18, 2015 by Randyh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 (edited) I find JRiver does a fantastic job of converting 2 channel files to 5.1 (and even 7.1 though I currently have the back speakers disconnected). When done well I find that far more immersive than stereo. However it does not work for me for records, only digital files. Again the setup needs to be just right. It sounds dumb with my living room KG setup, but with the basement QP system the sound is stunning. I still am amazed when I sit down at night how good it sounds. JRiver also gives you lots of variations on the effect as well so it can be tweaked until right. For me there is no longer any imaginary sound stage, there is a real one instead. This is interesting. The papers that I've read on conversion to 5.1 (http://www.aes.org/journal/sample_issue/JAES_V50_11_PG914.pdf and http://www.sersc.org/journals/IJSIP/vol2_no4/7.pdf) I've come to believe that not all firmware/software conversions in AV processors must be implemented with the same level of success. Perhaps the conversion is dependent on the phase information of the incoming source (digital or analog-digital). There is so much lost in the conversion to vinyl that I could believe your listening experience, digital vs. vinyl, is so different when converting to 5.1. I'm also curious: why do you not have your surround backs connected? Do they not provide much added surround experience? Edited January 18, 2015 by Chris A Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I'm also curious: why do you not have your surround backs connected? Do they not provide much added surround experience? Since building the QPs and updating my tweeters as well the back I find the KP-100s just detract from the quality of the sound. Maybe next summer I will build a couple more QPs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris A Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Timbre matching? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 We need a new, much more powerful disclaimer to add to every post. Maybe we can think one up? Your comment would have worked fine for me if you'd added "If your speakers don't image precisely, mono may suffer due to lack of coherency" or something to that effect. It sounded like a generalization, and when you speak on audio I read it carefully. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I find JRiver does a fantastic job of converting 2 channel files to 5.1 Such processing CAN work well, but it remains processing, and some of us don't want a center channel on music. Of course, that is easily remedied. When I was using an HT receiver with my main system for a while I found Neo worked well on some sources, not so well on others. I find the DynaQuad NEVER does anything that detracts and often, especially on analog, presents an exceptional and immersive stage. And that is after always having it in the system since 1976. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Timbre matching? That and the direct radiator vs. horn bass. It seems to muddy the water. The QPs are exceptionally clean. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tromprof Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 I find JRiver does a fantastic job of converting 2 channel files to 5.1 Such processing CAN work well, but it remains processing, and some of us don't want a center channel on music. Of course, that is easily remedied. When I was using an HT receiver with my main system for a while I found Neo worked well on some sources, not so well on others. I find the DynaQuad NEVER does anything that detracts and often, especially on analog, presents an exceptional and immersive stage. And that is after always having it in the system since 1976. Dave Not debating you preference but why not a center channel? I got into the surround thing after setting up PWKs summed mono center, a La Scala between two K-horns. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 Without the comparison, of course your speakers will seem "coherent" because there's no alternate sound to compare to. If they SEEM coherent, it's all good. As to your opening, yes, we are completely in agreement. I can see how coherence might blur mono. My own point was that what I hear from my sweet spot is extraordinarily clean mono emanating from a non-existent single speaker directly in front of me. I've heard mono on some 2 speaker system that did not deliver that experience. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted January 18, 2015 Share Posted January 18, 2015 There is a tremendously weird thread on another forum about whether or not anyone can hear the difference between a CD and 24/192 bit streams That would be a case of profound deafness, issues with the source recording, or a problem in the playback stream. The difference isn't subtle with a first class chain from recording to playback. Though I find much less between 88.2 and higher.. Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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