adqrip Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB Hand Drill 98dB Power mower at 3' 107dB Snowmobile, Motorcycle 100dB Power saw at 3' 110dB Sandblasting, Loud Rock Concert 115dB Pain begins 125dB Pneumatic riveter at 4' 125dB I remember the salesman cranking the Khorns up & we could not hear each other & we were shouting... The plate glass in the shop front was moving... Now.. a lot older.. some wiser & I will rarely play the speakers that loud.. Follow on question... Tube amps vs solid state? I am not a purist... I want an amp/receiver that is min fuss... I get that tubes have a smoother more refined sound... but replacing tubes??? how much $$ ?? how often?? I have a old Yamaha receiver that I I would have to spray contact cleaner in the vol knob (variable pot.. I was an aviation electronics tech in the Coast Guard) to keep the popping down.. But at 64 watts it will still drive most speakers... was told that one option would be a NBS preamp and NOSValve mono blocks .... thoughts? thank everyone for your input & the welcome on the forum... You guys rock! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) The output and response of each speaker will be different if one is enclosed in a corner and one is not. You can build false walls or enclose them to fix this. BUT......if you buy a set of Jubilee's you won't have to mess with this plus you will have one of the absolute best sounding speakers you can purchase today. Plan on hanging several large sound panels with those tall ceilings, you're gonna have some serious reverb and echo depending on the shape and openings in the room. Worry about the electronics later, but what you have mentioned should sound terrific. Take it from a K-horn owner, consider the Jubs, they're on a different level Edited October 18, 2015 by Max2 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USNRET Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 So the man inquires about a preamp and amp and gets advice on speakers............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 The output and response of each speaker will be different if one is enclosed in a corner and one is not. You can build false walls or enclose them to fix this. BUT......if you buy a set of Jubilee's you won't have to mess with this plus you will have one of the absolute best sounding speakers you can purchase today. Plan on hanging several large sound panels with those tall ceilings, you're gonna have some serious reverb and echo depending on the shape and openings in the room. Worry about the electronics later, but what you have mentioned should sound terrific. Take it from a K-horn owner, consider the Jubs, they're on a different level That is one fantastic photo! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) The output and response of each speaker will be different if one is enclosed in a corner and one is not. You can build false walls or enclose them to fix this. BUT......if you buy a set of Jubilee's you won't have to mess with this plus you will have one of the absolute best sounding speakers you can purchase today. Plan on hanging several large sound panels with those tall ceilings, you're gonna have some serious reverb and echo depending on the shape and openings in the room. Worry about the electronics later, but what you have mentioned should sound terrific. Take it from a K-horn owner, consider the Jubs, they're on a different level That is one fantastic photo! They all are. Its the speakers man People that own them walk an inch taller, hit REM sleep faster, etc. etc. There is no way anyone can approach these things in person without a huge smile on their face, even if they know zilch about speakers. Having a horn larger than a La Scala projects music like few have ever heard. Edited October 18, 2015 by Max2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Level at which sustained exposure may result in hearing loss 90 - 95dB The key words here are sustained exposure, not brief peaks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 (edited) I have seen the charts on wattage needed by PWK and just working from memory he also says that 100db is what he calls loud Yes, he called 100 dB "Average Level" loud. But he called for very brief peaks of 115 dB "at your ears." Klipsch's notions of loud show up in many places. One is Dope from Hope, Vol 16, No 1, January 1977. The paper was written by Don Keele, then chief engineer at Klipsch. He writes that he is talking about Average Levels (not brief peaks). LOUD 90 to 100 dB VERY LOUD 105 to 110 dB TOO DAMN LOUD 115 dB The sheet says that to get 110 dB Average Level during loud passages in the reverberant field (rather than the anechoic chamber in which the sensitivity is measured) of a 3,000 cu ft room with peaks 10 dB over average a single Klipschorn would need a 20 watt amplifier. What you get with SPL meter readings depends on the settings you use. When I have used "C" weighting (nearly flat) and "Fast," so very brief peaks have a chance to show up, I have read 110 dB a few times, which probably means I would have been using 20 watts. Sure enough, my peak reading wattage read out on my old Yamaha read about 25 watts, which is close enough! OSHA's upper industrial tolerable limit is 115 dB sustained for 15 minutes, not brief peaks. Certain kinds of music (some Rock, Metal, Electronic) call for extra caution, because they can be generally loud for sustained periods, rather than having surges topped by brief peaks, like orchestral music does. Edited October 18, 2015 by garyrc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adqrip Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 @ Max2.... Holy crap... those are awesome.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tube fanatic Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I get that tubes have a smoother more refined sound... but replacing tubes??? how much $$ ?? how often?? Depending on the design, tubes can cost as little as four or five dollars each. As to longevity, it all depends on the design. If done conservatively, even the output tubes can last 25000+ hours while the small signal tubes could easily last "forever." The design which William (wdecho) mentioned above is worth considering if you want to try building your own for very little money ($250). Its circuit is featured in the Talkin' Tubes section. Given your electronics background it should be easy for you to build. And don't think because the parts cost is so low that it can't possibly sound good. I've been designing and building budget amps for Heritage Series speaker owners for decades and the sound is breathtaking (I'm retired and currently only do that for locals, but will gladly offer you any assistance you need to build your own). Another budget amp design will be featured in the tubes section very soon as well! Maynard Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbphoto Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 In my family room, I have a 2.1 channel setup: McIntosh MA6500 integrated amp driving Heresy 3's. Been running this setup for a couple years and sounds great. In the basement, I have a new set of La Scala 2's that were being powered by a 15-year old Yamaha AVR RX-V596 aka HTR-5250. For 2.1 channel listening, it's rated for 100W and the sound was very good - maybe a little thin and it did breakup and get sizzle-y at moderate-loud listening levels and/or if I bumped up the bass tone control a bit. Last week I got a used McIntosh MC58 multi-channel amp off of eBay, installed it Friday, and I am now using the Yamaha as a pre-amp AVR only. The difference isn't night and day, but it is able to drive the La Scala's without getting tinny, the bass is more robust and tight, and the clarity and dynamics are a step up. Would I have been able to get the same results by going with a modern flagship Yamaha Aventage AVR? Probably pretty close. I'm sure I'll get a step up when I upgrade my Yamaha pre-amp in the future too. The wife has her antennae up right now, so I have to lay low for a while... I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm biased towards pairing Klipsch Heritage and McIntosh amplification. I may not be using more than 1-2 watts but those are the most important watts and they need to be backed up by a dynamic amp with a reservoir of power on-hand when needed. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 I heard my first pair of Khorns nearly 25 years ago & fell in love with the sound... Fast forward... I am ready to pull the trigger on a pair & need some advice from this group... Budget is 15-17K... @ Bill... budget is for speakers & amp... cheers, rip So the man inquires about a preamp and amp and gets advice on speakers............. I inferred he was also looking to buy a new pair of Khorns. If so, he might (or might not) be aware of the Jubilee. If he's not aware of it, he might want to know all his options prior to purchase. I'm 3-4 hours from him. Afternoon drive, he could hear them and have a quasi-educated opinion on his choices prior to plunking his hard earned (or easily stolen? ) cash down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptorman Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 The output and response of each speaker will be different if one is enclosed in a corner and one is not. You can build false walls or enclose them to fix this. BUT......if you buy a set of Jubilee's you won't have to mess with this plus you will have one of the absolute best sounding speakers you can purchase today. Plan on hanging several large sound panels with those tall ceilings, you're gonna have some serious reverb and echo depending on the shape and openings in the room. Worry about the electronics later, but what you have mentioned should sound terrific. Take it from a K-horn owner, consider the Jubs, they're on a different level That is one fantastic photo! They all are. Its the speakers man People that own them walk an inch taller, hit REM sleep faster, etc. etc. There is no way anyone can approach these things in person without a huge smile on their face, even if they know zilch about speakers. Having a horn larger than a La Scala projects music like few have ever heard. Those are very cool. An inch taller huh? I'll bet they lower your stress and blood pressure also! I need a pair of those…..you know….for medical reasons Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 You are showing non-stock Jubilee's. The first pair (at Wardweb's house) were the only pair built out of mahogany (?) or something. The second pair belong to Mike and he's enclosed the top horn, added a panel to the bass horn and I think he also added grills. Here is a picture of some stock pair as they might actually be received by Klipsch. They are of course, also available in industrial black. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 CEDIA 2015 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max2 Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 @ Max2.... Holy crap... those are awesome.... None of these Jubs are mine, but I agree with you. I bought used K-horns and put over 3K in them modding them with what was the most popular after market hardware for the money. I added the biggest wood mid horn that will fit in the top hat, BMS mids, Beyma tweeters and very upscale networks. My stock La Scalas are almost unlistenable in comparison to them. While the K horns sound very good they aren't in the same ballpark with the soundstage the Jubilee creates. If you are going to be totally satisfied with stock k horns, you're good to go, just don't hit any gatherings with any Hottrodded K's and certainly don't listen to any Jubs. After listening to a pair of Jubs, its all downhill from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adqrip Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Take it from a K-horn owner, consider the Jubs, they're on a different level I'll see if anybody in Atlanta has them.. . I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm biased towards pairing Klipsch Heritage and McIntosh amplification. That has been my thoughts headed into this sound upgrade...Hopefully somebody in Atlanta has the Khorns (& perhaps other speakers, though I have pretty much decided on the Klipschorns) with different amps to test.. thanks again guys for all the input... rip Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adqrip Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 I get that tubes have a smoother more refined sound... but replacing tubes??? how much $$ ?? how often?? Depending on the design, tubes can cost as little as four or five dollars each. As to longevity, it all depends on the design. If done conservatively, even the output tubes can last 25000+ hours while the small signal tubes could easily last "forever." The design which William (wdecho) mentioned above is worth considering if you want to try building your own for very little money ($250). Its circuit is featured in the Talkin' Tubes section. Given your electronics background it should be easy for you to build. And don't think because the parts cost is so low that it can't possibly sound good. I've been designing and building budget amps for Heritage Series speaker owners for decades and the sound is breathtaking (I'm retired and currently only do that for locals, but will gladly offer you any assistance you need to build your own). Another budget amp design will be featured in the tubes section very soon as well! Maynard My "tweet" (what we called AT's {aviation electronic techs}) days are long over... retired 14 years ago...but thanks for the vote of confidence.. I probably know enough to get electrocuted... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted October 18, 2015 Share Posted October 18, 2015 Take it from a K-horn owner, consider the Jubs, they're on a different level I'll see if anybody in Atlanta has them.. . I guess what I'm trying to say is I'm biased towards pairing Klipsch Heritage and McIntosh amplification. That has been my thoughts headed into this sound upgrade...Hopefully somebody in Atlanta has the Khorns (& perhaps other speakers, though I have pretty much decided on the Klipschorns) with different amps to test.. thanks again guys for all the input... rip Nobody that I'm aware of has a pair in Atlanta. As best I recall, the closest pair (of 2-way) to you would be Mike and myself, both of us outside of Knoxville. There is a guy in Chattanooga who's got a pair of Jubilee's as a 3-way which isn't what PWK was trying to do. His goal was to take the Khorn back to a 2-way. That said, looks like you're leaning on Khorns and they are certainly no slouch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Travis In Austin Posted October 18, 2015 Moderators Share Posted October 18, 2015 I have owned every model of Heritage speaker, and I currently own Jubilees, Cornwalls, and industrial Khorns.. I have amped Khorns with SS McIntosh, tube McIntosh, and demoed them with BAT, Conrad Johnson and just about everything in between. They sound great with Mac gear, nut they sound great with a lot of other things also. I had them on a 20' wall, and I have heard them at friend's homes as close as 5 or 6' apart. They have sounded great eveywhere I have hear them, but they sound better with more room like you have. You will be extremely happy with new Khorns. I am trying to recall if anyone has ever mentioned any amp being a bad match on here, and I really can't recall anyone saying they had a bad match-up. What you will find out, I think, is that you can start to hear the difference in various types of amplification through Khorns. You can also hear any noise they put out, they will quickly reveal shortcomings in amps, and recordings. You will find a preference in one. Looking forward to seeing them once you get them in place. Do you know what finish you think you are going to go with? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adqrip Posted October 18, 2015 Author Share Posted October 18, 2015 Nobody that I'm aware of has a pair in Atlanta. I was thinking of a store or dealer... wasn't inviting myself over to someone's house... Looking forward to seeing them once you get them in place. Do you know what finish you think you are going to go with? going with walnut... lots of wood in my house... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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