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mustang guy

Minimum wage. Should it be $15?

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You guys can decry CEO pay all you want, but it doesn't do any good, won't make a difference. McDonalds for example, they employ 1.7 million people. The CEO makes $8.75 million. You could take away his entire salary and distribute it to the burger flippers, and they would make an additional $5. PER YEAR.

Wal-Mart's a little better, $35 million CEO pay, 1.4 million employees. They'd make an extra $25. If you want to think about that in terms of an hourly wage, that's 1.2 cents per hour, assuming a 40 hour work week for 52 weeks a year.

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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I only watched the first few minutes because I've known about this for almost two decades. Perhaps someone could tell me, does the video go on to explain what is used as collateral for the debt?

And does it further explain how, when you apply for and receive a mortgage loan from a bank, that you are actually funding the loan through signing the promissory note, which the bank then deposits into its accounts, and that the bank is simply charging an interest fee their services?

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Did the survey, and wish I'd simply copied my "comments" section to paste here.

 

Basically, I said the minimum wage should be raised to a point that fully covered an individual's needs to be above the poverty level...maybe even at least two covered by one.  Reasoning is that we pay for welfare for those below the line anyway and it's filtered through an expensive bureaucracy.  Prices would rise to cover an increased minimum wage...but it would be direct aid rather than bureaucratic so far more efficient.

 

Open to comments on that as I'd never seriously thought about it before and that is the result of doing so.

 

Dave

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My wife is an attorney, in the past when we had very young children and my wife was mostly looking after them, we've hired a secretary of sorts at $10 an hour before. I can't imagine the government being like "you know, that's not enough, make it $15. Then don't forget about payroll taxes on top of that. And pay benefits." The secretary would literally make more than the attorney!

That's what nobody wants to think about, small business owners. That money has to come from somewhere and every employee isn't in an organization that has lots of fat cats burning $100 bills as firewood to heat their home. Every time this comes up they always envision McDonalds and Wal-Mart.

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All this CEO hate is a waste of time.  Take the 5.2 billion that the CEO's of the Fortune 500 companies make and give it all away equally and that would come to 16 bucks each in the US.  Can't even take the wife to a movie on that.

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I don't see the problem with a CEO making millions a year while entry level labor with no skills make a wage that isn't livable. The skills required to be a CEO are possessed by far fewer people than those possessed by burger flippers. That makes them extremely valuable assets.

The minimum wage was never meant to be livable. Perhaps I could make a case that it was meant to be unbearable - so that those making it would strive for more experience/education so that they could make more.

If a CEO is making an incredible amount of money it is because companies who pay these sums have done the math to determine the position brings more value than it consumes and, they have to compete in the marketplace to draw in the talent.

You aren't making enough? Do you want to be that CEO and make all that money? What is stopping you, other than yourself? If you aren't making enough because you don't have the talent/skills/drive to improve your station in life, welcome to how things work. I think it is completely unfair to demand something you are not qualified to receive and cry to the government when it doesn't materialize.

There is another facet to all this: not everyone can be on top.

Education is now a money mill itself!!!! Most of our millennials are busy trying to pay off student loans. I was told a story by a national educator that she had two exceptionally smart students.  She wanted them to go to Community college and learn technical skills - however, because of the value of a major college degree (as preached by education) they opted to go to Duke and Davidson. Both graduated with honors, and can't find jobs.  The one that attended Davidson has $100,000 in student loan debt (unemployed). The one that attended Duke has accumulated $120,000+ in student loan debt and works at Burger King (non-management). 

 

I think our generational thinking has much to do with how we believe.  Most of the people on audio forums are Baby Boomers, also called the generation of greed. They are generally workaholics, divorced, and did everything they can to achieve the American Dream (many of them grew up and became Mega Church pastors but that's another story). They tend to blame Millennials for a poor work ethic, or tell them they aren't trying hard enough.  Well this isn't the 80's (didn't like the 80's that much....judged by your ability to wear Ralph Lauren or other labels.....in HIGH SCHOOL!!!!)!  Times and the world has changed and our thinking hasn't adjusted to the changing paradigm.  Now it's not all about who works the hardest, or has the most education. I know unemployed mechanical engineers!!! The system has evolved into something else - people call it networking.  Many times its not what you know, but who you know...not to mention that redlining still exist....yes it does, especially in non-unionized work. 

 

I know a young man that has his MBA and his field is MIS, and he's a reserve military officer.  It was very difficult for him to find a decent paying job.  He has one now, but he's still underpaid compared to others in his field. This system that's at work in our country is the product of the 1980's - the ME generation.  I belong to the X'er's - I'll be 50 next year, and feel for the plight of the Millennials. That's why when it's time to retire - I'm taking it to the house. Make room for someone else.  My home is modest - some of you have cars that cost more than my house, but it's big enough for my wife and I. Hey...I think I may have stumbled on to another cause - lack of contentment among the haves. What did Howard Hughes say when asked how much money is enough...."One dollar more". 

Edited by prerich

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Instead of hiring a secretary have you or your wife stay up all night and do the work yourselfs like the rest of us working stiffs that can't afford a "secretary" ;) lol    I work around the clock just to eat and pay rent.

Edited by xxJPMxx

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And does it further explain how, when you apply for and receive a mortgage loan from a bank, that you are actually funding the loan through signing the promissory note, which the bank then deposits into its accounts, and that the bank is simply charging an interest fee their services?

 

Fast forward to 15:50.

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Dave, I made a similar comment.  Pay people enough to incentivize work such that they still don't qualify for food stamps, etc.

 

Metro, your point is superfluous in that while it is economically correct, you miss the moral issue as a reflection of our society that places a way more inordinate value on the value of one's labor versus another.  It's not envy driving the argument (or "ceo hate"), it a sense of pure human fairness.  I get what you say about small business, but if the business owner weren't making enough in the first place they wouldn't feel a need to hire anyone.  Let's not put the cart before the horse.

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Well this isn't the 80's (didn't like the 80's that much....judged by your ability to wear Ralph Lauren or other labels.....in HIGH SCHOOL!!!!)!

To this day I typically can't stand anyone I see with a polo horse on their shirt. I'm way more prejudiced about this than anything else. Can't stand how some people use it as a status symbol like they're upper class. I refuse to wear anything Polo in public.

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As mentioned, price of burgers and fries, and dry cleaning, etc all go up.  We live with it knowing we are a society that takes care of those who take care of themselves...like those who get a job rather than life off our tax money.

 

Again, no economic expert but I'll bet that in the long run it's cheaper for us all to pay more for a burger than to badly handle the issue of poverty as we have so far.

 

Dave

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In a nutshell here's the deal:  Companies that are allowed to pay people such a small amount that they qualify for government benefits are essentially being subsidized by the government.  Every one of us has to decide if that's what we really want.  I suppose the truly heartless would simply remove any level of public support from the workers to solve this dilemma.  FFS, we already have a homeless problem, why not make it worse?

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Metro, your point is superfluous in that while it is economically correct, you miss the moral issue as a reflection of our society that places a way more inordinate value on the value of one's labor versus another.  It's not envy driving the argument (or "ceo hate"), it a sense of pure human fairness.

Fairness and morals has nothing to do with it. You're paid what you're worth. Period. If you're worth more you'd be offered a better job elsewhere. If somebody thinks they can do a CEO's job, well, where's their resume? Liberals in this country are way more worried about pulling other people down in the name of being fair, rather than pulling people up to rise above their current status.

I get what you say about small business, but if the business owner weren't making enough in the first place they wouldn't feel a need to hire anyone.  Let's not put the cart before the horse.

Not really. For example, I'd love to expand, and have an employee just sitting there doing my work for me. Maybe there's somebody trustworthy who is willing to do this for a relatively small amount of pay. After expenses and paying this guy, maybe I make a few bucks. How do you think this would play out if suddenly that guys salary had to be doubled? I'd rethink doing this at all that wouldn't I?

Edited by MetropolisLakeOutfitters
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Well this isn't the 80's (didn't like the 80's that much....judged by your ability to wear Ralph Lauren or other labels.....in HIGH SCHOOL!!!!)!

To this day I typically can't stand anyone I see with a polo horse on their shirt. I'm way more prejudiced about this than anything else. Can't stand how some people use it as a status symbol like they're upper class. I refuse to wear anything Polo in public.

 

I wear them when I find them at a cheap enough price just like the rest of my clothes. 

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In a nutshell here's the deal:  Companies that are allowed to pay people such a small amount that they qualify for government benefits are essentially being subsidized by the government.  Every one of us has to decide if that's what we really want.  I suppose the truly heartless would simply remove any level of public support from the workers to solve this dilemma.  FFS, we already have a homeless problem, why not make it worse?

Is it better for a company to pay somebody $8 an hour, or to let somebody go because they can't justify paying them $15?

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Well this isn't the 80's (didn't like the 80's that much....judged by your ability to wear Ralph Lauren or other labels.....in HIGH SCHOOL!!!!)!

To this day I typically can't stand anyone I see with a polo horse on their shirt. I'm way more prejudiced about this than anything else. Can't stand how some people use it as a status symbol like they're upper class. I refuse to wear anything Polo in public.

 

 

 

Metro, your point is superfluous in that while it is economically correct, you miss the moral issue as a reflection of our society that places a way more inordinate value on the value of one's labor versus another.  It's not envy driving the argument (or "ceo hate"), it a sense of pure human fairness.

Fairness and morals has nothing to do with it. You're paid what you're worth. Period. If you're worth more you'd be offered a better job elsewhere. If somebody thinks they can do a CEO's job, well, where's their resume? Liberals in this country are way more worried about pulling other people down in the name of being fair, rather than pulling people up to rise above their current status.

I get what you say about small business, but if the business owner weren't making enough in the first place they wouldn't feel a need to hire anyone.  Let's not put the cart before the horse.

Not really. For example, I'd love to expand, and have an employee just sitting there doing my work for me. Maybe there's somebody trustworthy who is willing to do this for a relatively small amount of pay. After expenses and paying this guy, maybe I make a few bucks. How do you think this would play out if suddenly that guys salary had to be doubled? I'd rethink doing this at all that wouldn't I?

 

Worth is the wrong word... you are paid what you AGREE to.  Every day you show up for work is a day you agree to your pay.  

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Metro, your point is superfluous in that while it is economically correct, you miss the moral issue as a reflection of our society that places a way more inordinate value on the value of one's labor versus another.  It's not envy driving the argument (or "ceo hate"), it a sense of pure human fairness.  I get what you say about small business, but if the business owner weren't making enough in the first place they wouldn't feel a need to hire anyone.  Let's not put the cart before the horse.

Fairness and morals has nothing to do with it. You're paid what you're worth. Period. If you're worth more you'd be offered a better job elsewhere. If somebody thinks they can do a CEO's job, well, where's their resume? Liberals in this country are way more worried about pulling other people down in the name of being fair, rather than pulling people up to rise above their current status.

 

 

 

What??  You mean "those" guys want to keep them down??   I thought "that" side always promised free items, monthly checks and gifts just to get their vote and give them a fair shake.  You know those numbers out weight the real working class these days, we're all doomed.

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Metro, your point is superfluous in that while it is economically correct, you miss the moral issue as a reflection of our society that places a way more inordinate value on the value of one's labor versus another.  It's not envy driving the argument (or "ceo hate"), it a sense of pure human fairness.

Fairness and morals has nothing to do with it. You're paid what you're worth. Period. If you're worth more you'd be offered a better job elsewhere. If somebody thinks they can do a CEO's job, well, where's their resume? Liberals in this country are way more worried about pulling other people down in the name of being fair, rather than pulling people up to rise above their current status.

I get what you say about small business, but if the business owner weren't making enough in the first place they wouldn't feel a need to hire anyone.  Let's not put the cart before the horse.

Not really. For example, I'd love to expand, and have an employee just sitting there doing my work for me. Maybe there's somebody trustworthy who is willing to do this for a relatively small amount of pay. After expenses and paying this guy, maybe I make a few bucks. How do you think this would play out if suddenly that guys salary had to be doubled? I'd rethink doing this at all that wouldn't I?

 

OK to you society should have no sense of basic fairness.  Then you stray into pulling someone down which is not the premise at all.  We may as well go back to separate but equal and other forms of societal discrimination since there is no fairness or morality.  Keep your foot down on other's necks before they show you what their idea of pulling themselves up may be. 

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Is it better for a company to pay somebody $8 an hour, or to let somebody go because they can't justify paying them $15?

 

Is it better for all taxpayers to support the other 7 dollars because companies would rather be subsidized?

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Worth is the wrong word... you are paid what you AGREE to.  Every day you show up for work is a day you agree to your pay.

Of course, but if you were worth more, would you really agree to it? We're talking cause and effect here.

A good movie to watch is Cinderella Man. James Braddock was a great boxer but found himself with hand injuries. At that point he was only barely worth what everybody else at the docks was being paid. He bettered himself by healing his hand and training hard, got back in the game and became the world champion. Do you think he would accept dock work at that point? No, at that point he became a 1st Lieutenant in the Army then went into building bridges.

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