RF-7II vs Heresy III

[jjptkd]

So...it was bound to happen.

At first, it seemed the Heresies were warmer, but it turns out the 7s just have a significant amount more detail.

The sound is smoother, more open, detailed, and bigger.

 

 That's exactly how I felt when I compared the H-III's to my Chorus II's with Crites upgrades. The H-III's just sounded too smoothed over and there was a significant lack of detail.

[Frzninvt]

Not a very fair comparison, should have used Cornwall's for a more equal match woof-age wise.

[jjptkd]

 Certainly results can vary depending on seating position, speaker placement, room treatments, and other factors. In this particular test, the 7s came out on top. Real-world testing rather than ideal conditions is really what most of us have to deal with.

 

I agree 100% with this and the reason I don't make decisions on whether a piece works for me or not until I have it in my own space for a little while. Now I've also learned not to totally dismiss items either based on what I hear in my space, just acknowledge that in my particular situation it is either ideal or not. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that are really enjoying the hell out of their H-III's right now and that's great, I'm glad they found a speaker that works for them in their own scenario.

[Grizzog]

 

 

You ran the speakers using different amps for your A B comparison?

 

I have my Heresy''s mounted on top of two end tables, IKEA has some for $10 each that are the right height to put the mid range horn at ear level when sitting. You will have to take them off of the slant risers or put a couple of paper backs in the rear as shims for the test, hopefully it won't make them front heavy risking tipping.

 

What song or song are you using for your AB??

 

In your photo, floor bounce and

 

 

Yes, I know, it was...heresy...to compare with two different amps.  I tried the H III on both the Anthem and NAD amps, and there wasn't much difference on those speakers.  I had the two level matched, so although the amps have different qualities, I was able to get a sense of both sets of speakers.  Not ideal, but it was fun and informative for me anyway.

 

As far as songs...there were many.

Some artists I listened to:

Halie Loren

Norah Jones

Mark Knopfler

Dire Straits

Johnny Cash

Mary Chapin Carpenter

Tony Bennett

Buddy Guy

Ryan Adams

Morgan James

Dave Brubeck

Beegie Adair

 

Then there was an assortment of acoustic guitar, cello, pop, and a little bit of rock.

 

 

Not a very fair comparison, should have used Cornwall's for a more equal match woof-age wise.

 

Send a pair over, I'll do the test!

 

 

 

I agree 100% with this and the reason I don't make decisions on whether a piece works for me or not until I have it in my own space for a little while. Now I've also learned not to totally dismiss items either based on what I hear in my space, just acknowledge that in my particular situation it is either ideal or not. I'm sure there's a lot of people out there that are really enjoying the hell out of their H-III's right now and that's great, I'm glad they found a speaker that works for them in their own scenario.

 

 

Yep!

 

I still love the H III, they are great speakers.  They are what got me into this Klipsch obsession, so they won't be going anywhere.  Currently they are performing duties in my office/guest bedroom and sounding fantastic.

[richieb]

I know this not a fair comparison with sonic memory being what it is but I've had Heresy's in past two pairs actually both H1's and I've recently acquired a pair of RB75's that I venture to say will give the Heresy a damn good run for its money. Being just a two way with the RF7 pro line compression driver makes the 75 a formidable stand mount. For current sonic memory I also have a pair of Quartets, what some call a Heresy on steroids and when played back to back with the 75 it was no contest for me. The RB was all over the Quartet hands down. Not quite the bass of the Quartet but other than that it was my preferred sound. I'm not a big fan of sub woofers but do have a nice, musical Epos sub designed for music not theatre reinforcement and with a light hand with the sub controls the 75's was a tough combination to beat.

[teaman]

Richie, I have yet to hear a Quartet outperform a Heresy. Not sure who refers to Quartets as Heresies on steroids. Maybe it is just me.

 

 

 

Thanks OP for the follow up. I would still love to see what you think with the Heresey III's on your end tables. I have two pair of Heresies on end tables and they sound amazing. Both my Slant Heresies and My Heresey I's sound much fuller off the ground and about a foot or so out from the wall. I also have my KP 250's on stands about 24 inches up and it really improved the sound as well. Could be preference based on my set up so not trying to influence where you put them.

 

Keep us posted brother, very cool to hear what people get out of these comparisons. Also, any possibility you can A/B them with the same amp? Might bring out some sonic signatures you overlooked when the different amps were changed.

 

Thanks, Tim

Edited May 31, 2016 by teaman

[Grizzog]

Richie, I have yet to hear a Quartet outperform a Heresy. Not sure who refers to Quartets as Heresies on steroids. Maybe it is just me.

 

I think the Quartet and Heresy are pretty similar, but I chose the Heresy over them as well.  I had done another comparison a while back on those:

https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/162578-rp-280f-vs-quartet-vs-heresy-iii/

 

I would still love to see what you think with the Heresey III's on your end tables.

 

If I get some time on the weekend, this may happen.  Just need to find some books to bring up the rear of the Heresies.

 

Also, any possibility you can A/B them with the same amp? Might bring out some sonic signatures you overlooked when the different amps were changed.

 

None of my amps have A/B speakers on them, so I don't think I'd be able to use the same amp.  Switching speaker cables in between would leave too much of a gap to really get a sense of the differences.

[teaman]

Thanks Grizzog. I just went and read your Quartet/RP 280/Heresy III comparo. I agree with you on the differences you found there as well. Thanks for your effort in testing and answering our questions.

 

I think that the Heritage speakers sound better suits my taste. I prefer Heritage lines over any of the Reference gear. Maybe I am just old school but I really enjoy the three way output and to me the reference gear with the copper woofers always seem to taint the sound a bit tinny. I have not heard the Palladium line but I am looking to do so. I have seen lots of praise for that line up and I love that they offered most of it with three way design.

 

 

Tim

[Grizzog]

The RF-7IIs come closer to the Heritage sound than other Reference series I've heard. I assume this has to do with the 1200hz crossover for the horn and true compression driver, which allows it to cover a significant portion of the frequency band. 

 

I can see the appeal to the 3-way design, which is why I am keeping the Heresy.  However, the Jubilee is a 2-way, and that was PWK's plan.  My Altec 19s are 2-way, and they give nothing up to a 3-way.

 

Based on my experience with the 19s, I'm not sure it's a question of 3-way vs 2-way, but rather the proper integration and radiation patters of all drivers involved. Also taking into account the sound signature the design is going for. 

[jjptkd]

I've heard the Forte's being referred to as "Heresy's on steroids" but never the Quartets. Personally, I've never been really that all impressed with the Quartets myself, always thought they were just OK. I remember running a pair of KG 5.5's and swapping them out for a pair of Quartets and being extremely underwhelmed, so much so that I ended up running both pairs for the evening. The Forte and Chorus are just so much more speaker its almost hard to believe they're from the same line up.

[SilverSport]

interesting...I have Quartets and Chorus lls as well as Heresys...the Quartets do very well according to me and have FAR more bass punch than the Heresys...I do find the Heresys have a very well balanced sound though and are a bit smaller an enclosure...

 

Bill

[wvu80]

I like the "versus" type threads, I find them interesting. 

 

New vs Old, big vs little, cheap vs expensive, it's all good.  I like these informal, subjective listening tests.  I have no problem with guys who like charts and graphs, sometimes that can objectively explain a subjective observation.  For me, charts and graphs most often make my brain go numb.

 

I did a speaker comparison some time back and I quickly became bogged down in figuring out the "ideal" setup for each speaker.  How to level matching source material, listening to each speaker EQ'd flat vs using EQ, finding proper placement in the room since room can be 50% of the sound one hears, using a sub, not using a sub, etc etc etc. 

 

There was just no way I was ever going to produce a level playing field.  Instead I choose to get each speaker sounding as good as I could in its own way, whatever that means.  Then judge each speaker against the other with the best sound I could get.

 

Good enough. 

Edited June 1, 2016 by wvu80

[Bubo]

Agree, for a technical comparison, you would need an Anechoic Chamber and everything controlled.

 

Most of us don't have one down the basement, perhaps wish we did.

 

IMHO even with everything controlled, testing one freq at a time is not the same thing as music.

 

Perhaps there is a way to pump multiple rotating freqs through the systems simultaneously, the device must exist.

 

So we the users are left with our ears, knowledge and experience.

 

Minimize reflection, maximize absorption, drivers at ear level for the mids (why I didn't buy the K-horns), electronics that don't intentionally color the sound or just suck.

 

And finally the content. Psycho-acoustics, Quantization Error and Loudness Wars are the three big quality killers, besides the Artist and or Music sucking.

 

This is why I always ask about the content and gear for these types of discussions.

 

If the tester loves Death Metal played at the lowest MP3 bit rate through the DAC and headphone jack on their I-Phone (or similar device), then I don't invest a lot of energy in reading the rest of the posts.

 

As to the quality wine tasting like comparisons, it's all in good fun as is tweaking the set-up for the taste test.

 

There are some great acapella recordings as  there are many great female vocal either with piano or orchestra; either the playback moves you or it doesn't.

 

Moving you is the "certain something" "Je ne sais quoi" that separates the sound systems and recordings.

 

This is a frame capture from a recording session, yes she was dolled up since they were recording the session on video.

 

A fine specimen of Belgian Womanhood, yes there is more to Belgium than chocolate and lambic beer. 

 

http://french.about.com/od/frenchenglish/fl/Whats-That-Jena-Se-Qua-Learn-The-French-Expression-Je-ne-Sais-Quoi.htm

 

 

 

[Paducah Home Theater]

This is a frame capture from a recording session, yes she was dolled up since they were recording the session on video.

 

A fine specimen of Belgian Womanhood, yes there is more to Belgium than chocolate and lambic beer. 

 

http://french.about.com/od/frenchenglish/fl/Whats-That-Jena-Se-Qua-Learn-The-French-Expression-Je-ne-Sais-Quoi.htm

 

 

 

 

 

Noémie Wolfs of Hooverphonic for the slow people.  Didn't see it mentioned elsewhere.

 

 

 

If the tester loves Death Metal played at the lowest MP3 bit rate through the DAC and headphone jack on their I-Phone (or similar device), then I don't invest a lot of energy in reading the rest of the posts.

Can't argue with the last part of the statement but there's nothing wrong with metal, some of it is actually pretty revealing and hard to reproduce. The snap of the beater on the skin of a kick drum, the thickness of cymbal crashes, the tightness of the bottom end of a double bass / double kick without it turning into mush, the growl of a rock singer, all are things that will sound like crap on cheap speakers and are easy to hear the differences.

Edited June 1, 2016 by MetropolisLakeOutfitters

[Grizzog]

Can't argue with the last part of the statement but there's nothing wrong with metal, some of it is actually pretty revealing and hard to reproduce. The snap of the beater on the skin of a kick drum, the thickness of cymbal crashes, the tightness of the bottom end of a double bass / double kick without it turning into mush, the growl of a rock singer, all are things that will sound like crap on cheap speakers and are easy to hear the differences.

 

I think one of my favorite things about efficient speakers is the ability to stay together during complex passages.  I've listened to a lot of music that just turned into a mess on previous systems.  Those same passages sound fantastic on the Klipsch and Altecs.

[richieb]

I wasn't trying to start the typical forum keyboard "boxing match" saying the Quartets were referred to as Heresys on steroids. This is something I thought I heard in the past and JJT may be correct in that it is the Fortes not the Quartets for this reference. I've owned Fortes also both 1 and 2 and kept them for a while in preference to other well regarded "hifi" speakers. But at the end of the day they lost out to Cornwalls, then all the above crushed by Belles.

Now I still have Quartets that have been relegated to forced retirement, KHorns will do that to you, and with a small sub will put RB75's up against Quartets, any day. I've done it back to back. The Q's are still sitting comfortable in retirement.

[Bubo]

 

Both of these are live unpolished recordings, no auto tune, no dub overs either.

 

9AM Radio Promo Tour on the road.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Bs09twUmg&list=PLgugWBANrQyU39SWyIM6sCIJWo-A3GBlD&index=6

 

Radio promo tour

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgpwMvoKAGs&list=PLgugWBANrQyU39SWyIM6sCIJWo-A3GBlD&index=8

 

On Stage, DVD is worth every penny

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXBpZjgHlpU

[Bubo]

I wasn't trying to start the typical forum keyboard "boxing match" saying the Quartets were referred to as Heresys on steroids. This is something I thought I heard in the past and JJT may be correct in that it is the Fortes not the Quartets for this reference. I've owned Fortes also both 1 and 2 and kept them for a while in preference to other well regarded "hifi" speakers. But at the end of the day they lost out to Cornwalls, then all the above crushed by Belles.

Now I still have Quartets that have been relegated to forced retirement, KHorns will do that to you, and with a small sub will put RB75's up against Quartets, any day. I've done it back to back. The Q's are still sitting comfortable in retirement.

 

 

It would be fun to do a bake off between the performance of the Belles and the LaScalas.

 

Are the Belles just a more attractive LaScala?

 

I passed on them when I purchased the LaScalas because of their width, I don't recall a big difference in sound, the K-Horns had a little better base. Like many things 35-40 years ago, I'm a wee bit fuzzy on the exact details.

[wvu80]

Can't argue with the last part of the statement but there's nothing wrong with metal, some of it is actually pretty revealing and hard to reproduce. The snap of the beater on the skin of a kick drum, the thickness of cymbal crashes, the tightness of the bottom end of a double bass / double kick without it turning into mush, the growl of a rock singer, all are things that will sound like crap on cheap speakers and are easy to hear the differences.

 

Before I reply, I wanted to compliment Bubo on an excellent piece.  It's hard to put music impressions into words.  Well done.

+++

 

Agree MetLO, there is nothing wrong with metal as a listening genre.  The only problem I have is you opened up a whole new can of worms. 

 

The problem with metal is how to compare it to the source material, just as you said.  When you hear a cymbal crash, how do you know if it really sounds like an 18" splash cymbal or a 22' ride cymbal?  When the vocalists screams out a lyric (I'm being descriptive, not critical) how do you know if it's in tune? 

 

That being said, the definition of the metal band for criteria for testing speakers then becomes "does it sound good to MY ears?"  That is where using metal as a media becomes difficult to generalize because you might like your metal as it sounds when played LOUD, I might like metal because of the driving drums or maybe the definition in the bass guitar line, just as you suggested.

 

But if we both used a grand piano, we could both agree if a middle C on the recording sounds like a middle C played live! on the piano, or we might agree that a trombone sounds like a trombone.

 

When you are using something like metal to evaluate speakers I just think it becomes even more subjective.  There's nothing wrong with that, it's just different strokes for different folks. 

 

That's why I like to use familiar music in male vocal, female vocal and piano.  It exposes a speaker's strength and weaknesses very quickly.

[Bubo]

 

 

That's why I like to use familiar music in male vocal, female vocal and piano.  It exposes a speaker's strength and weaknesses very quickly.

 

 

Poe Fly Away

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEv6NotxuC4

 

Skylark, my instant sound system check

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzNmG_lpNw8

 

 

Pretty Reckless, You

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfNtrTJuZ8M