Last step to complete the theater..

[Peter P.]

Is it possible Aaron's lack of bass output or extension is due to his room acoustics or dimensions? I'm just wondering whether, no matter how hard he tries, the room may be holding him back from reaching low enough or loud enough.

[AaronB123]

14 hours ago, jason str said:

May as well just throw money out the window running K-horns with direct radiating subwoofers because it won't matter witch ones you buy out of the choices you mentioned, its never going to sound right.

The orbital shifter is horn loaded. Are you saying that would be a better choice?

[Scrappydue]

Aaron if you have the room get two orbit shifters. I have tons of bass head friends around here and all of them have told me dual orbit shifters is insane. From 20hz up it would take like 16-20 of what I have to keep up. 

 

If you can afford them money and space wise that's your path I'd say. And jtr subs will CRUSH just about everything out there. Probably some of the best commercial offerings out there unless we are talking other huge horn offerings. 

 

If not the OS pair I vote for the S2's. I've heard them many times. They are insane. I know plenty of guys who own pairs of them and desire nothing else bass wise. And the cool thing for them is they aren't huge boxes at all 

[AaronB123]

21 minutes ago, Scrappydue said:

Aaron if you have the room get two orbit shifters. I have tons of bass head friends around here and all of them have told me dual orbit shifters is insane. From 20hz up it would take like 16-20 of what I have to keep up. 

 

If you can afford them money and space wise that's your path I'd say. And jtr subs will CRUSH just about everything out there. Probably some of the best commercial offerings out there unless we are talking other huge horn offerings. 

 

If not the OS pair I vote for the S2's. I've heard them many times. They are insane. I know plenty of guys who own pairs of them and desire nothing else bass wise. And the cool thing for them is they aren't huge boxes at all 

Ya, I considered the S2's as well. I noticed they are a lot smaller which being someone that used to deal a lot with car audio and subwoofer boxes I know sealed usually does have much less CU FT for the box.  I'm pretty sure I've narrowed it down to either the orbital shifters and the S2's. I'm gonna try to see if JTR would give any sort of a discount for buying 2. I tried calling them but no answer, I just realized that's probably due to Martin Luther King day., they might be closed. 

[jason str]

27 minutes ago, AaronB123 said:

The orbital shifter is horn loaded. Are you saying that would be a better choice?

 

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/orbit-shifter-lfu/

Looks like a good option but its unnecessarily large for home theater usage.

 

Danley has good options.

 

Have a THTLP custom made to suit your taste from local builder.

[AaronB123]

Just now, jason str said:

 

http://jtrspeakers.com/home-audio/orbit-shifter-lfu/

Looks like a good option but its unnecessarily large for home theater usage.

 

Danley has good options.

 

Have a THTLP custom made to suit your taste from local builder.

Ya the more I think about it, I think the orbital shifter is the one I may go with. 

[RoboKlipsch]

As a guy who went from 0 to 100 fast in the bass area, I will say that the moment you are looking for could very well still exist in your current setup.

 

I had moved mine around a million times  until I was positive I had found the 4 best spots, no matter what.   I could not move one of them and improve the response at all, it would always be worse.  But I still didn't get the <feel> people often refer to.

 

Then, at one point, I changed the delays.   Even though their distances apart didn't support it, I change them anyway and found that a small delay to the subs in the back created a massive <feel> to go with the sound.  A friend came by and freaked out....HEY!  What is that?  I said....you are <FEELING> the subs, not just hearing them!  He loved it.

 

So listen, I'm about the last guy to say don't go buy bigger better and more subs

But it is possible that what you want exists in those two big ported 15s.

 

Just a thought, before spending the $$.

 

[AaronB123]

18 minutes ago, RoboKlipsch said:

As a guy who went from 0 to 100 fast in the bass area, I will say that the moment you are looking for could very well still exist in your current setup.

 

I had moved mine around a million times  until I was positive I had found the 4 best spots, no matter what.   I could not move one of them and improve the response at all, it would always be worse.  But I still didn't get the <feel> people often refer to.

 

Then, at one point, I changed the delays.   Even though their distances apart didn't support it, I change them anyway and found that a small delay to the subs in the back created a massive <feel> to go with the sound.  A friend came by and freaked out....HEY!  What is that?  I said....you are <FEELING> the subs, not just hearing them!  He loved it.

 

So listen, I'm about the last guy to say don't go buy bigger better and more subs

But it is possible that what you want exists in those two big ported 15s.

 

Just a thought, before spending the $$.

 

I have tried numerous locations and where they are now definitely seems to be the best, as well as from what I have read online about subwoofer placement but I have never messed with the delays. Hmm, I have to admit I'm not that advanced when it comes to that kind of stuff so I probably wouldn't know where to start. 

[jason str]

Just a heads up here, you could probably have a THTLP built veneered with Walnut veneer to match the new K-horns for nearly the same price as the JTR but in the end the choice is yours.

 

 

 

 

[AaronB123]

6 minutes ago, jason str said:

Just a heads up here, you could probably have a THTLP built veneered with Walnut veneer to match the new K-horns for nearly the same price as the JTR but in the end the choice is yours.

 

 

 

 

I'm looking into the website. Does this person actually build the subs for you, or they send the plans and you build? It looks like they send you the plan and you need to build. 

[babadono]

There's one page on the BFM website that directs you to people who will build for you. The link Jason posted took me right to it. But other than that its DIY, here's the plans.

Its going to cost a pretty penny to get one veneered with Australian walnut to match your KHorns but man would that be b-e-a-u-t-i-f-u-l.

[JohnA]

I was "forced" to go to 4 subs by "The Revenge Of The Fallen".  My home system must outperform a lowly theater!    First you should look at the locations of your existing subs.  You may be sitting in/near a null.  If that isn't enough, add another pair.  Four, centered along each wall, gives the best coverage for the cost. 

 

As to adjusting the delays, that speaks to the phasing of the sub drivers to the woofers of the other speakers.  Add 3 feet to the sub distance for a La Scala, something greater for a K-horn.  Use average distances to your mains, if there is a large difference. 

 

Mulitiple Subs - Number and Locations.pdf

[TasDom]

Maybe Klipsch would sell you some Australian walnut if you buy a KPT-1802

 

 

[jason str]

1 hour ago, AaronB123 said:

I'm looking into the website. Does this person actually build the subs for you, or they send the plans and you build? It looks like they send you the plan and you need to build. 

 

Bill's authorized builders build them for you. I was once on his authorized builders list and had my own websight but it did not make business sense, just tell them what you want and they should give you an estimate. Even if you go Black Walnut to save a little cash it will match nicely if its done with the right veneer.

 

 

[derrickdj1]

Before spending a ton of money, getting a FR in the room with the current sub and trying to get the phase right or verifying if it is good would be a big help.  If a null is the problem, bigger and stronger subs will make if worse.  For as much money that has and will be spent, getting some room measurement is cheap and will go along way in setting up the right bass system.

 

Another option is to get some tactile transducers like the Cowson, Buttkicker, MDX, or Aura Pro.  One or two TT's can easily beat 3 or 4 subs for less money and floor space friendly.  I have eught 18 in. subs that are not small and the Aura Pro's still add more to the tactile response.

 

As long as the current subs can hit Reference level between 31-63 Hz, TT's can easily fill in the gaps.  There is no need to exceed 121 db in a 5.X or 7.X system and 128 db for 9 or 11.X systems.  Movies are not made to exceed Reference and playing them higher can cause clipping in the digital domain, increase distortion, and raise the noise floor of the system.

[jason str]

1 minute ago, derrickdj1 said:

Before spending a ton of money, getting a FR in the room with the current sub and trying to get the phase right or verifying if it is good would be a big help.  If a null is the problem, bigger and stronger subs will make if worse.  For as much money that has and will be spent, getting some room measurement is cheap and will go along way in setting up the right bass system.

 

Another option is to get some tactile transducers like the Cowson, Buttkicker, MDX, or Aura Pro.  One or two TT's can easily beat 3 or 4 subs for less money and floor space friendly.  I have eught 18 in. subs that are not small and the Aura Pro's still add more to the tactile response.

 

As long as the current subs can hit Reference level between 31-63 Hz, TT's can easily fill in the gaps.  There is not need to exceed 121 db in a 5.X or 7.X system and 128 db for 9 or 11.X systems.  Movies are not made to exceed Reference and playing them high can cause clipping in the digital domain, increase distortion, or raise the noise floor of the system.

 

Direct radiators and bass shakers will add nothing but distortion to the mix, the whole reason of running horns is to eliminate this issue.

[derrickdj1]

There was no mention of adding direct radiator or any other sub.  The Crowson TT work different than a typical bass shakers.  If the goal is to increase tactile response, there is not scientific reason that any of the listed TT's  can't be used with horn or direct radiators.  Something as simple as the free mobile phone app, Vibsensor can be used to dial them in with the rest of the bass system.

 

The VS is an objective way to actually measure your TR at the seat.  Weather horn or direct radiator subs are used in the bass system, TT's should be time aligned with the subs.  Below is an example of one my old VS runs on the iphone6.  VS also works on Android phones.

[AaronB123]

39 minutes ago, Tasdom said:

Maybe Klipsch would sell you some Australian walnut if you buy a KPT-1802

 

 

That thing is amazing but the only way I'd be able to use something that big is if I put my TV on top of it and had it be right front center. 

[derrickdj1]

If I remember correctly, your room is not overly large.  This will go along way in getting subs of the right size to fit your needs.

[RoboKlipsch]

3 hours ago, AaronB123 said:

I have tried numerous locations and where they are now definitely seems to be the best, as well as from what I have read online about subwoofer placement but I have never messed with the delays. Hmm, I have to admit I'm not that advanced when it comes to that kind of stuff so I probably wouldn't know where to start. 

Sorry im so used to diy subs with pro amps where u can adjust it easily.  On those its just a 180 phase flip switch which should be tried but likely isnt the key.    Distance BETWEEN the subs is the only other method available.   Vary one closer and further....a foot at a time then try the other as needed...thats about the best i can think of.  If it catches the sweet spot they will work better together and offer tactile feel at reasonable volume.