Car Thread

[JJkizak]

19 hours ago, Ceptorman said:

I've never heard of Max Track.....I was 8 years old at that time

 

That might have been a variation of "positraction" which was in other GM stuff.

JJK

[Davis]

31 minutes ago, JJkizak said:

 

That might have been a variation of "positraction" which was in other GM stuff.

JJK

No Buick used the RPO G80 Positraction name as the rest of GM. This is a traction control system.

 

 

[JJkizak]

Maybe that's why mom's Buick never spun the rear tires.

JJK

[SilverSport]

Buick 455ci V8s ruined me for other cars...Dad had a '73 Limited (don't call it an Electra 225  ) and Mom had a 1974 LeSabre both with this engine...long past the 455ci Stage 1 era but still had plenty of torque...

 

I eventually got the LeSabre and it easily sat 6 plus and got 12 mpg on the highway and 10 around town...

 

Both of those cars by the way had no problem spinning the tires...

 

I had not heard of the Max Trac before Davis so thanks for that!

 

Bill

[twistedcrankcammer]

On ‎8‎/‎17‎/‎2017 at 7:24 AM, Davis said:

Back to the bricks in Flint Mi is an excellent alternative to Woodward. It runs for 5 days (Aug 15-19) during the same time as Woodward.

 

All of us Buick people get treated extra special in our home town of Flint as well.

 

But I do agree with DizRotus that everyone should go at least once to Woodward.

 

Twistedcrsankcammer it would be awesome to see all the cammers in one spot.

 

Unfortunately I will be chasing the solar eclipse this year and will miss the events.

 

 

Davis,

 

We have a bunch of Cammers there every year, normally about 8 or so, but 2 years ago we had over 20, 23 I think! Maybe next year for you then?

 

Rog

[twistedcrankcammer]

1 hour ago, JJkizak said:

Maybe that's why mom's Buick never spun the rear tires.

JJK

 

 

Never spinning the tires has more to do with overall weight of the vehicle, a lack of big numbers in the horsepower department, and better traction of the new radial tires over the old bias ply tires more than it does with a clutch style GM type Posi-traction rear end. Ford also had a clutch type differential called the Traction Lock of which I have owned several. The ratchet style Detroit Locker is far superior to any clutch type posi that Ford or GM ever built and only truly bested by a spool for drag racing and I can spin slicks just fine. It is also important to realize that while I have owned a ton of different FE Fords and some truly rare race pieces from Ford. I have also owned a Buick 455, an Oldsmobile 455, a 427 Chevy big block with rectangle port heads and a 400 Pontiac, along with small blocks of various brands as well. One of my best friends had 1,400 HP in a Pro Street 1969 RS true DZ 302 block originally Z-28 and he had the original 12 bolt GM Posi narrowed with an aftermarket MOROSO brute strength clutch type Posi unit. Let me state for the record that is a stupid and dangerous decision to use a clutch type of Posi behind that kind of power level!

 

Roger

[JJkizak]

1 hour ago, twistedcrankcammer said:

 

 

Never spinning the tires has more to do with overall weight of the vehicle, a lack of big numbers in the horsepower department, and better traction of the new radial tires over the old bias ply tires more than it does with a clutch style GM type Posi-traction rear end. Ford also had a clutch type differential called the Traction Lock of which I have owned several. The ratchet style Detroit Locker is far superior to any clutch type posi that Ford or GM ever built and only truly bested by a spool for drag racing and I can spin slicks just fine. It is also important to realize that while I have owned a ton of different FE Fords and some truly rare race pieces from Ford. I have also owned a Buick 455, an Oldsmobile 455, a 427 Chevy big block with rectangle port heads and a 400 Pontiac, along with small blocks of various brands as well. One of my best friends had 1,400 HP in a Pro Street 1969 RS true DZ 302 block originally Z-28 and he had the original 12 bolt GM Posi narrowed with an aftermarket MOROSO brute strength clutch type Posi unit. Let me state for the record that is a stupid and dangerous decision to use a clutch type of Posi behind that kind of power level!

 

Roger

 

I used a Torsen in the rear and a posi in the AM2752 front of my CJ5 Jeep. The Torsen  consisted of three triads (universals) and did not loose traction with one wheel on Ice. it was pretty heavy with all of those gears. It also went around a turn easier than a posi unit and required standard gear oil. The Jeep posi in the front would set up a somewhat oscillating motion when under load. The only thing that stopped my Jeep was a swamp where I hung it on a the frame with all four wheels hanging. Haven't heard a clue what happened to the Torsen which started out in Cleveland, Ohio.

JJK

[Davis]

1 hour ago, twistedcrankcammer said:

 

 

Davis,

 

We have a bunch of Cammers there every year, normally about 8 or so, but 2 years ago we had over 20, 23 I think! Maybe next year for you then?

 

Rog

I will keep next year on my calendar for Woodward especially since we lost 2 national and 1 regional Buick events over the last 3 years I need to add some more automotive outlets to my schedule.

 

I just do not get my hot rods out enough like I used to.

 

I did go to the Mopar Nats at National Trail last Friday. 2400 cars, it is a nice event.

[DizRotus]

Woodward is in Cruise mode today.  It's cloudy with occasional sprinkles, with more of the same forecast for tomorrow.  Not ideal for the Cruise.

[Davis]

Wet asphalt, drag radials and big HP requires common sense and a light foot.

[DizRotus]

Not all Buicks are in Flint this weekend @Davis.  Just as I was taking a photo of  a Woodward Ave. sign, this Buick got in the frame.

 

[Davis]

They are sneaky that way.

 

I would try and do both considering the proximity of Woodward and Flint.

[DizRotus]

On my way out of town I took some photos of the Woodward Dream Cruise at 8:00 am.  There was a string of ~20 '55 - '57 T-Birds.  The shot with the 63 Corvair shows a glimpse of the roadside.  People in lawn chairs and under tents line both sides of Woodward Ave from Detroit to Pontiac, ~20 miles.

 

[twistedcrankcammer]

On ‎8‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 1:16 PM, Davis said:

Wet asphalt, drag radials and big HP requires common sense and a light foot.

 

 

As does a true Posi like a Detroit locker or spool on snow! Ask me how I know??

 

Rog

 

[Schu]

modern version of the "track"

 

 

despite having only 170bhp/184ft in stock form, it's relatively easy to bolt on a stage 1 ECU tune and get to 230whp/270ft... add a factory turbo upgrade from the 2.0l engine and get to 302hp/325ft, with AWD this thing launches like a mofo.

 

[Davis]

On 8/26/2017 at 8:39 PM, richieb said:

 

Curious - how would the Buick stack up against your Scat? Or vice-versa --

That is a very good question.

My Buick is as follows.

1970 Buick 455 @.030 for 462 cubes. Forged pistons with valve reliefs.

Cam is a T/A Performance .572" lift 107 degree seperation and a very noticeable idle

Heads are aluminum T/A Performance Stage 1SE with mild porting.

Intake is a aluminum T/A Performance single plane port matched to the heads

Carb is a Holley 850 double pumper

Mickey Thompson equal length headers and full 3" mandrel bent exhaust with flowmasters.

Recurved HEI and stock stage 1 mechanical fuel pump

Muncie M20 4 speed with a 2.52 first gear and a 3.42 rear gear and 215/60-15 BFG Drag Radials

Pump gas 93 octane and very street able with the rear gear.

My best is 12.24 @116MPH with a terrible 2.0 sixty foot time in a nasty Density of Air of 2200ft. Good ole Indiana summer heat and humidity.

The car still has stock suspension with old bushings and has did a best of 1.8 sixty foot when the drag radials were new (2003) and it was an auto transmission

The car is an honest 11.8x ET as verified by the MPH it if would launch.

 

My Scat pack has never been down the strip nor have I played with the onboard timers so I will use results from a challenger forum I hang out at.

Stock magazine times put a auto trans at 12.6@114MPH (car and Driver corrected to altitude), the stick is .2 slower.

There is a forum member that  ran Bone stock on street tires, it ran mid/high 12's.

On 20" tall drag radials it did get it down to 11.77-11.80 on the stock tune in -500ft DA (45 degree temp).

That same Scat pack has now gone 11.67 at 115.73 mph w/ 1.62 60ft time

In this configuration

Mods:
- Racestars (17x9.5 rear + 17x4.5 front)
- M&H front skinnies
- M/T ET Street R drag radials
- hellcat airbox w/ filter removed
- BT catch can
- Hemifever custom tune/PCM swap
- 96 octane fuel (1/4 tank BP 93 + 1.5 gallon VP MS109 race fuel)
- Tazer line lock w/ trans in Track Mode

 

As you notice his MPH stays around 114 to 115MPH but lowering the sixty foot time is huge in drag racing. Rule of thumb is for every tenth you can decrease the sixty foot equals 1.5 to 2 tenths at the big end on the Elapsed time.

 

So in theory if i could back to my old 1.8 sixty foot time my ET would be 11.94-12.02 or If I could get to his 1.6 sixty foot I would be at 11.54-11.715

 

ET has so many variables in the launch that MPH is a better factor of how much horsepower a car has and from a roll as they both sit I think my Scat would be about two car lengtsh behind.

 

I have read a couple articles that indicate from dyno pulls factoring in drive line loss that the 485HP of the Scat Pack may be a bit underrated.

 

Now your butt dyno would be fooled because the Gran Sport is much louder at WOT, the nose raises up a bit like a speed boat so riding in them back to back you would think the Gran Sport is a lot faster. The Scat Pack is just sneaky fast the way it goes about its business.

 

I built the Buick 11 years ago to be a pump gas street/strip car that I could drive anywhere. I have driven it to an event 4 hours away, raced it all day and drove it home. I had the engine parts machined to my specs and I assembled it back in 2006. I have owned the Gran Sport for 22 years now.

 

This all goes to show you how much the modern performance car has come.

 

I tell everyone if you have an opportunity do not miss out on this era of performance cars because they are leaps and bounds above the 1960's.

 

As a final note the wheels up  Blue Jason Line GS that kind of got this conversation going ran 10.37 as a NHRA C/SA. That is with iron heads and iron intake and a quadarjet. Albeit with 14:1 compression, race fuel and built and tuned by pros.

 

 

 

 

 

[richieb]

Very interesting, Thanks. I have read the same that either the Scat driveline power losses are well below average Or the 485 is on the low side. Possibly around the 500 mark. I have a friend with a late '60's GTO Tripower semi-built 389. After riding in my car he said there is no way the Goat stood a chance. I agree. Old four speed car vs. eight speed lighting fast paddle shifted auto. Ii's really an apples vs. oranges comparison, not fair.

[Davis]

I was at the Mopar Nats in Columbus, OH 2 weeks ago, 84 degrees and 89% humidity.

Bone stock Hellcats on drag radials were running 11.2

With Mods 10.8 with the fastest kitty at 10.2.

 

Scat packs were in the 12.8 to 13.2 range on street tires.

Drag Radials 12.2 to 12.4 range.

[DizRotus]

Modern bone stock performance beats 60s - 70s stock muscle all day.

 

@Davis, @burninator and others interested in this thread might be interested in my drag racing post in the "Cables, Coffee and Cocktails" thread.  It really belongs here.

[DizRotus]

17 hours ago, Davis said:

I was at the Mopar Nats in Columbus, OH 2 weeks ago . . . Scat packs were in the 12.8 to 13.2 range on street tires.

Drag Radials 12.2 to 12.4 range.

 

Yes, but they have 4 doors  . . . taxi cabs and cop cars have 4 doors.  

 

In 1967, the MSU campus police had 4-door 442s, with the same sexy Walker Chamber Pipe exhaust.  They were cool sedans, but they were still sedans.  I understand the influence of Lansing's Oldsmobile HQ, but did they really need pursuit capabilities on a campus?  They must have been worried about catching my 150 hp Corvair powered 61 VW Beetle. :-)