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vasubandu

Vasubandu's Tower of Subwoofer Build

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1 hour ago, vasubandu said:

You know what I hate about subwoofers?  It is that subwoofer sound that they all make.

This has got to be a candidate for statement of the year.....wow.

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2 hours ago, vasubandu said:

The thing is I don't want t build a subwoofer or even a great subwoofer.  I want to build a giant tube subwoofer.

This probably qualifies for second place.....

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1 hour ago, CECAA850 said:

A crappy sub, a sub being pushed beyond it's capability or more than likely a sub that has not been set up properly.

Possibly all three, but I have heard what were supposed to be very good subwoofers and had the same sensation. I have a lonely PB2 Plus that is almost as old as my 15 year old son. I lack much of a reference point to judge it, just know that it is light years ahead of the Paradigm SW2200 that it replaced.  I also am somewhat confident that I will have one r two great subs after my experiment ends.  Either I will find a way for them to cohabitate that works, or they will be separate subs.  Ism sure that it is not set up properly because I have not done much to set it up and I exhausted my immediate abilities in that respect.  I doubt that I am pushing it beyond its capabilities because I don't listen to anything loud. I just need to get out more and hear what is possible.

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1 hour ago, CECAA850 said:

Unless I forgot to carry the one it looks like that tube will be almost twice as large as it needs to be.  Please check my math.  Too large of an enclosure can damage the drivers as they don't have the proper air spring to keep the drivers from overexcursion.  That size would probably work as a ported enclosure although I don't think I've ever seen a ported dual driver tube.

 Your math is dead on except that  I am going ported.  I just have not even started or figuring the ports out yet. And ported, it wants 16-20. SoI will end up right in the middle.  That was the whole idea - match the enclosure and the drivers on size. And then work out the rest. Now your comment about a ported dual driver has me worried. I have a ported dual driver sub. The SVS B4 Plus that I was in love with is ported with 4 drivers.  I just assumed.  A quick bit of reseach shows a number of dual ports subwoofers along with some comments that most dual driver subs are sealed because of space issues.

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1 hour ago, PrestonTom said:

CECAA850

You have been saying all the right things. Unfortunately they have been falling on deaf ears. I also believe that design comes before buying parts. The problem is that a considerable amount of money is being thrown at the project. In my book, 1) getting a good low end response does not need to be expensive, and 2) two (decent) subs are better that one and that three are even better. All of this is being ignored.

 

What is perplexing is that there a number of good simulation programs that can answer these "what if" questions without spending a dollar. Are they perfectly accurate? Nothing is perfect but that can narrow things down quite a bit.

Hi @PrestonTom thanks for your comment.  I hope at least that @CECAA850 comments are not falling on deaf ears.  I am not ignoring him.  I actually am paying close attention and goig back over what he has said to make sure I got it. I have some quirks in what I am doing, but I am trying to actually put together something that will work. I am curious about your statement that design comes first. Isn't it fair to start by saying, "I want to make a cylinder subwoofer., and then to impose that design constraint on the process?  And isn't it fair to choose the drivers you want and then the build to accommodate them? So if I say I want a cylinder with HS-24 drivers, and I prefer a ported subwoofer, the the first thing I am going to see is that I will need 32-40 cubic feet of space.  If I am going to stick with the design constraint of a cylinder my primary consideration is going to be ceiling height. For many reasons, I am going to want it as narrow as possible. A 5-foot diameter circle in my room is not going to work. A 4 foot diameter is still obnoxious, and a 2 foot diameter won't fit. So a 3 foot diameter is Goldilocks. I haver never build one of these before but I have build complicated things, and this seems like a rational approach to me. I know that it will provide the volume, I know the drivers are smaller than the tube, and I know that it will fit.  If I am going about this all wrong, let me know.  I may be crazy but I try not to be stupid.

 

And by the way, I get that great sound could be achieved less expensively and more efficiently.  And if great sound were my immediate goal, I would do that. But my immediate goal is to make something I can play with and test.

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2 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

Hi @PrestonTom thanks for your comment.  I hope at least that @CECAA850 comments are not falling on deaf ears.  I am not ignoring him.  I actually am paying close attention and goig back over what he has said to make sure I got it. I have some quirks in what I am doing, but I am trying to actually put together something that will work. I am curious about your statement that design comes first. Isn't it fair to start by saying, "I want to make a cylinder subwoofer., and then to impose that design constraint on the process?  And isn't it fair to choose the drivers you want and then the build to accommodate them? So if I say I want a cylinder with HS-24 drivers, and I prefer a ported subwoofer, the the first thing I am going to see is that I will need 32-40 cubic feet of space.  If I am going to stick with the design constraint of a cylinder my primary consideration is going to be ceiling height. For many reasons, I am going to want it as narrow as possible. A 5-foot diameter circle in my room is not going to work. A 4 foot diameter is still obnoxious, and a 2 foot diameter won't fit. So a 3 foot diameter is Goldilocks. I haver never build one of these before but I have build complicated things, and this seems like a rational approach to me. I know that it will provide the volume, I know the drivers are smaller than the tube, and I know that it will fit.  If I am going about this all wrong, let me know.  I may be crazy but I try not to be stupid.

 

And by the way, I get that great sound could be achieved less expensively and more efficiently.  And if great sound were my immediate goal, I would do that. But my immediate goal is to make something I can play with and test.

 

You are going about things the wrong way, if the goal is to build a good sub use the proper tool for the job and test there so you don't end up building it multiple times the wrong way.

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1 hour ago, PrestonTom said:

I guess I take this hobby more seriously than others. Secondly, I am a cheap son of a gun and I hate to see others throw money away. Perhaps these are personal flaws ......

 

 

I don't take anything seriously. Never have.  And I have never accepted that there is a right way to do anything.  Things are the way they because of random and arbitrary reasons.  Nothing exists that could not be improved with radical change.  As I look back on the history of humanity for things that people took seriously, none of them endured.  If humanity still exists in 300 years, do you think that we will still be listening to speakers and still have subwoofers? I don't. 

 

Please understand that I mean no disrespect when I say these things.  I am the outlier and i know it.  My existence depends on people who take things seriously, and I am grateful for them. And I am not trying to mock or disparage the way things are.  I am just playing with a few parts of it.  So please do not take offense.  Your taking this hobby seriously is a wonderful quality, not a flaw. Without people like you, we would not have standards, and things would fall into chaos.  I would argue that it helps to have a few people like me pushing at the edges, but not too many. 

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Coming in on the back end of this thread.  I built a Dayton UMAX 15 kit (sealed box) from Parts Express and coupled it with an Inuke 3000DSP as recommended by many forum members.  Have been totally happy, 500 sq. ft. room.  Contemplating building another one with another 3000.  Anyway, I say start with something like this to get your feet wet.  You could build two of them and stack them with a 6000DSP.  If you want ported, maybe look at a Marty cube.  It's a proven design and would get you what you want.  I have an old SVS 20 -39 pci sub, 12" driver, 325 watt amp, single port, cylinder design, and it plays hard in the movie realm, not as great for music though.  That's why I went with a sealed design for my listening area.  I play mostly music.  I'm not saying at all that ported designs are not good with music though.  I just wanted something simple to start with.  Listen to the other members here, building a poorly designed sub box will just frustrate you and waste a lot of time and effort, not to mention some dough. 

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7 minutes ago, vasubandu said:

I don't take anything seriously. Never have. 

Please don't take this the wrong way.  Personally I have a hard time trying to help anyone with this attitude.   It's just how I am.  I truly hope this project exceeds your expectations and I will be watching but not contributing further.  No disrespect or malice intended.  We're just 2 different people with dissimilar thought processes.  If you make it to Hope this year I'll make you a drink.

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I have to say that I am a bit surprised by the reaction to this. I am trying to think things through and make wise choices, not slap something together.  Nick at SI and another subwoofer designer you would know that I asked for advice both seem excited about the idea and have encouraged me. It may not work, but am I doing something wrong?

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13 hours ago, vasubandu said:

I have to say that I am a bit surprised by the reaction to this. I am trying to think things through and make wise choices, not slap something together.  Nick at SI and another subwoofer designer you would know that I asked for advice both seem excited about the idea and have encouraged me. It may not work, but am I doing something wrong?

Yes you are. You are not listening to the collective voices of reason that speak from experience so you don't have to learn the hard way. I think you just like the conversations and are not serious about arriving at a destination.

 

16 hours ago, jimjimbo said:

This has got to be a candidate for statement of the year.....wow.

 Hey Jimbo, My wife says the same thing when all she hears is boom boom boom from the shop. Does that count to? :D

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14 hours ago, vasubandu said:

And I have never accepted that there is a right way to do anything. 

Then you are wasting a lot of people's time here.

 

15 hours ago, vasubandu said:

Without people like you, we would not have standards, and things would fall into chaos.

And this statement completely contradicts what you said above, which is why your threads fall into chaos.

 

If you don't want to listen to those that have many, many years of experience, then don't bother to ask.  If you or others think I'm being rude here, I'm sorry, but this is just downright crazy.

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I think that at this point, anyone who wishes to answer the OP's questions on subwoofers is welcome to do so.  All other posts aren't really necessary.

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1 hour ago, Dave A said:

Yes you are. You are not listening to the collective voices of reason that speak from experience so you don't have to learn the hard way. I think you just like the conversations and are not serious about arriving at a destination.

 

 

I am listening, but I am choosing to try something different, at least in terms of the general direction. I am dead serious about arriving at a destination, but I happen to have a different destination. There is a well trodden path, and I am heading into the woods, which is what I usually do. People tell me that I am not going to reach the town at the end of the path, but I am not heading there. I still will need certain skills that I lack, and I will need to acquire them one way or another.  I will still need help navigating my way to wherever I go, and I will get it where I can find it. Some may be interested in what I find, and I will gladly share it with them. Others will consider this a fool's errand, and I will respect their views. But I am not harming anyone. If people  want to provide the help that I need, I will welcome it. If not, I will look elsewhere.

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1 hour ago, jimjimbo said:

If you don't want to listen to those that have many, many years of experience, then don't bother to ask.  If you or others think I'm being rude here, I'm sorry, but this is just downright crazy.

 

I don't think that you are being rude at all, and I understand what you are saying. I always listen to people who have meaningful experience, and I consider what they have to say. But I do not blindly follow anyone.  Actually, if I were just trying to make a great subwoofer, I would blindly follow @CECAA850 in a heartbeat. But that is not what I am trying to do. I am trying to test something different. And when people tell me that trying something different is a waste of time, I have to ask just what experience they have doing what I propose to do. And the answeris almost always none. So when people tell me that I am wasting my and their time, they are not speaking from experience.  They are speaking from assumptions.  This assumptions may be well founded, but no one has said "I tried that and it did not work." 

 

And yes, this is downright crazy.  That in a sense is the point.  

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19 hours ago, vasubandu said:

You know what I hate about subwoofers?  It is that subwoofer sound that they all make.  Hard to describe, but I know it when I hear it.  It does not sound like any natural sound that I have heard, but it is part of subwoofer language.  Usually right at the beginning. It is noise, not sound.  I wold love to get rid of that and have nothing but sound from my subwoofer.

 

That's why I keep telling you to make big giant ports.  

 

There's two things that kill a sub's sound the fastest, one is port noise, second is box coloration / ringing, both of which are due to undersizing.  Most people's complaints revolve around port issues though.  

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1 hour ago, wstrickland1 said:

I'm on boating/fishing forums where every now and then an alias is created that behaves just like this. 

 

Behaves like what? I have posted my idea and sought input and suggestions.  I have not claimed to be some oracle who has the secrets for the perfect subwoofer, and I have been respectful and appreciative for the help that has been given.  I have not tracked anyone down, dragged them to my post, and forced them to read it.   I have been candid about my own limited knowledge; and I have made fun of myself while encouraging others to join in.  I happen to be dead serious about this, and two people who make top tier subwoofers and are acknowledged experts have encouraged me to pursue it.  So just what behavior do you mean?

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