kink56 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 yes, ? ? ? I do not play very loud at all. But I cannot give you a measurement. I would guess around 90dB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Drew Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Have you checked polarity/phasing? All components in the current crossovers wired the right way? If this has been asked and answered and I missed it, please forgive me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Elementary my dear Watson. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indiana Drew Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, kink56 said: Elementary my dear Watson. Was sure you had, but didn't recall seeing it confirmed with a question. I have run across it in my own pre-loved gear when checking with a tester app ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 When I got my Forte Is, which were stock, they sounded weird to me. Upon taking the mid and tweeter horns out I discovered the wires to one of the midrange horns were swapped. Bob Crites said that it happens that way from the factory from time to time. So one driver, in one speaker was OOP probably since new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 90 db is pretty loud btw, you are probably less than that. At the end of the day the xovers are what is gonna have the most effect on sound... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 If you have never had horn loaded bass cabinets such as Belle, La Scala, KHorn, Jubillee, but only heard the bass from direct radiators, there is a distinct difference. The horn bass will be much smoother sounding, with much less distortion. This could cause you to turn up the gain, to the point of having the mids/tweets be way too loud. Just a thought... the cost to turn it down is free, as is the suggestion. Bruce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 On 3/22/2018 at 3:31 PM, kink56 said: ... the Dynaco makes these speakers MUCH better. ... My old tube Dynaco Mark IVs (two-40 wt RMS power amps, 1964) sounded great! Warm, forgiving, effortless with my JBLs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 On 3/22/2018 at 6:30 PM, kink56 said: yes, ? ? ? I do not play very loud at all. But I cannot give you a measurement. I would guess around 90dB. I will now show my ignorance. This is really stretching it, really grasping at straws, but, according to the Klipsch/Keele chart (DfH, 1/1977), which takes room size into account, a stock Belle needs only 0.2 watts to produce 90 dB in a 3,000 cu.ft. room. At very low power, some solid state amps produce increased distortion. I am not familiar with the amps you listed in your original post, but are they solid state? Could that be why the Dynaco sounds so much better on your Belle? The Forte I would need about 0.7 watts, 3.5 times the power. Would that move any of your amps out of the objectionable distortion range? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 5 hours ago, garyrc said: At very low power, some solid state amps produce increased distortion ... An old forum member, @leok, an engineer, claimed that the majority of solid states amps had the highest distortion levels at low power. He had a very short list of solid state amps he approved of. I believe he used SET and Hypex in his systems. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 Yeah, probably a lot less than 90dB. I would think 90dB would be the loudest I ever listen, and that is rarely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 Quote I got the PrimaLuna power amp. It is very good! I took the Xiang Sheng preamp out and put in my Spectral DMC-15. This is the ONE thing that made the most difference in reducing that bothersome resonance so far. All my other preamps, Crown, Theshold and the Xiang Sheng had it to various degrees. The Dynaco amp and the PrimaLuna amp reduced to a little degree, but the Spectral preamp did it the most. Everything matters, that's for sure! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audio Flynn Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 For not allot of cash I would recommend picking up a used DAC. I always like Burr Brown chips. One box Redbook jitter is magnified in a way with Heritage. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubai2000 Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Everything matters indeed - @kink56 - seems like you are making progresss - which obviously is what one wants to happen after having spent a considerable amount of cash. Many people have already written about the revealing character of the Heritage lineup - but what I cannot understand is how a different preamp should cure those resonances you were writing about - wouldn't they be rather speakers (i.e. box ) related? Please understand that my remark is in no way meant to be disrespectful - I am just wondering. But again: what matters most is that YOU get the sound you are looking for - so best of luck. Another (probably silly) idea: you have been using a sub all the time - (same here btw.) - so you are experienced in setting those up, but perhaps you can finetune those settings just one more time? And just one final comment - with my Khorns I have found that tube amplification is one way to go, but there are alternatives - both for pre- and poweramps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest wdecho Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Klipsch and the better horn speakers with high efficiency are very unforgiving and will show any fault of any part in the chain of reproduction. For this reason studios of old used big horns for listening. They would show any musician off key immediately. Studios have gone to smaller monitors these days probably more to do with size than reproduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 Did not cure, but some preamps make it worse, or better. It is a matter of degree. Some are so bad I can hear it two rooms away playing at moderate levels. Some are "good enough" to at least enjoy the music without getting nauseous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schu Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 9 minutes ago, kink56 said: Some are "good enough" to at least enjoy the music without getting hearing damage. ^this... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted March 25, 2018 Author Share Posted March 25, 2018 The Spectral is phenomenal. The timbre and the soundstage the best I ever heard. There is still that resonance but it is greatly reduced. It may be because of speed, or maybe it is just a matter of perfect impendence matching? Oh, and ANY of my amp combinations have too much gain. What is nice about the Crown power amps I can turn DOWN the gain. What is nice about tube amps I can use different tubes. The primary gain tubes on the Prima Luna are 12AX7s. The secondary, just before the power tubes are 12AU7. I replaced the 12AX7 with 12AT7 and that helped lower the gain a little. Then I tried 12AU7 in the 12AX7 place, so that I had all 12AU7. That lowered the gain some more and it improved the sound overall. I did not want to run it with tube types not recommended (they say if you want to lower the gain go 5751 which I do not have). So, is there any long term problem running the sweet sounding 12AU7 in place of the 12AX7? I do not want to lower the gain in a preamp, I want it to happen at the power amp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcmusic Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 So have you gotten the ALK Xovers yet??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted April 3, 2018 Share Posted April 3, 2018 I'm pretty sure his are the ones listed on the auction site right now. Still makes me happy that I built a pair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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