ClaudeJ1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 8 minutes ago, Khornukopia said: My personal opinion about this whole thing is that even if different amps sound the same with one specific speaker, the same amps most probably will sound different with other speakers, so it is the different combinations of equipment that matters, as many of you have already said. Yes there are different impedences at different frequencies and different and complex parasitics in the passive network (or lack thereof when the same amp is used with an active Xover). It's never that simple. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzannucci Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 1 hour ago, ClaudeJ1 said: Yes there are different impedences at different frequencies and different and complex parasitics in the passive network (or lack thereof when the same amp is used with an active Xover). It's never that simple. You are correct. That is why I mentioned the ATC speakers used in the original post. Much of the ways that amps sound different is in the bass, particularly when running bass at a very low impedance and/or with multiple woofers. Those small 6.5" woofers with very limited (mid-bass) bass extension will not highlight the drive many amps have or will not have in the bottom end. That along with bloated, puffy bass sound vs. tight and extended with each of the different amps run with more ugly impedance / current hungry loads. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Heck I can hear the difference between two Gibson J-45s in my hands often only a few serial numbers apart! As for A/B comparisons of amps, I may not be able to tell the difference. BUT, whenever I live with an amp for awhile and then introduce another amp, even if I have used it before, I can immediately hear the difference. A youtube clip will obliterate the subtle differences between the two violins or between two Gibson J-45s. Or even two models of Klipsch speakers. I have even swapped 57 Classic humbucker pickups between two 1996 Gibson Les Paul 59 reissues, and then they each sounded different. So I am saying two Les Pauls, two sets of pickups yielded 4 distinct sounding combinations. It boils down to what you are listening FOR. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 In general I prefer the tone of Yamaha pianos over Steinways, but that is a preference, not based on anything scientific. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I notice that on this forum imaging and soundstage "spatial presentation" is seldom near the top of the priority list, and often dead last. It would make sense as this is not the priority of heritage Klipsch speakers either and almost any monitor speaker on stands can beat Klipsch in that respect, even $300 ones. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zen Traveler Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 9 hours ago, ODS123 said: gravitate to all-in-one table top or sonos-like streaming systems. Not that those are bad - they're not - but they will not keep this hobby alive. If you phrase it that way, then no, unless you are talking about only 2-channel. Otoh, if you are talking about a stream-lined multichannel system hooked up to great speakers I suggest it's easier now than ever before. You can get quality music AND movies in one system and that is where I think the market is going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 11 minutes ago, kink56 said: I notice that on this forum imaging and soundstage "spatial presentation" is seldom near the top of the priority list, and often dead last. It would make sense as this is not the priority of heritage Klipsch speakers either and almost any monitor speaker on stands can beat Klipsch in that respect, even $300 ones. Absolutely true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 hours ago, Deang said: To be fair, the amp was a gift from his wife, for his power hungry Vandersteens. Man, that must have sounded good. Too bad he didn’t let the cables break in more. Yes. He probably gave her a list of the must have features he and every beginner audiophile require, and there is no other amplifier with that feature set. So McIntosh it was. I’m pretty sure that my wife loves me, but not that much. Let’s hope all the beginners out there have thoughtful and generous wives as well. Otherwise, no crucial mono switch, metres and balance knob for them. Oh well, what to do? At least every amp sounds the same and they won’t miss out on audio quality... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I may be wrong, but I think ProAc still uses plywood. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 On 1/8/2019 at 1:46 PM, kink56 said: I notice that on this forum imaging and soundstage "spatial presentation" is seldom near the top of the priority list, and often dead last. It would make sense as this is not the priority of heritage Klipsch speakers either and almost any monitor speaker on stands can beat Klipsch in that respect, even $300 ones. If one takes pair Khorns, LaScalas, Jubilees, etc. in room CORNERS vs. a pair of OB speakers, like Carver Amazing Platinums (or his current ones) way OUT of corners, the enhanced 3D effect is quite amazing vs. anything Klipsch has ever made. However it's a trade-off because even with a Kilowatt Amplifier, the Carvers cannot match the "jump out of your chair" DYNAMICS of Horns with a mere 10 Watts of power. I own or have owned ALL of them over the years, so it's pretty obvious to me. The best that horns in corners can do is 2 1/2 D in comparison to the 3D effect of Open Baffle Speakers way out of corners, but you need a bigger room. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 36 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said: If you phrase it that way, then no, unless you are talking about only 2-channel. Otoh, if you are talking about a stream-lined multichannel system hooked up to great speakers I suggest it's easier now than ever before. You can get quality music AND movies in one system and that is where I think the market is going. I have been doing just that for almost 20 years, upgrading to the latest video and audio ELECTRONICS, but it's slowing down a bit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kink56 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Yes, and between these two extremes one has to choose what is more important. I personally want both, but cannot afford what it would take to do so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 3 minutes ago, kink56 said: Yes, and between these two extremes one has to choose what is more important. I personally want both, but cannot afford what it would take to do so. I have an extra pair of Carvers you can have cheap, if you can pay the shipping. I'll be using the other pair as umgawakikbootie Computer speakers on either side of my desk!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 43 minutes ago, kink56 said: I notice that on this forum imaging and soundstage "spatial presentation" is seldom near the top of the priority list, and often dead last. It would make sense as this is not the priority of heritage Klipsch speakers either and almost any monitor speaker on stands can beat Klipsch in that respect, even $300 ones. While this is true, I find that the imaging and soundstage from my heritage Klipsch speakers is still pretty good. It seems that the Heresy II are the best in this respect. Maybe because their more compact size time aligns the drivers better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 12 minutes ago, Tizman said: While this is true, I find that the imaging and soundstage from my heritage Klipsch speakers is still pretty good. It seems that the Heresy II are the best in this respect. Maybe because their more compact size time aligns the drivers better? I was apprehensive about buying a pair of klipschorns for a long time because I feared the imaging and soundstage would be far inferior to my monkey coffins pulled 7 ft. out into the room. I was pleasantly surprised when I found that the big horns can indeed convey a 3 dimensional soundstage, albeit with not as much depth as other speakers. But when listening to what they do, one tends to forget all about that one minor shortcoming. Shakey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 5 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said: ... big horns can indeed convey a 3 dimensional soundstage, albeit with not as much depth as other speakers. But when listening to what they do, one tends to forget all about that one minor shortcoming. Also true. Ever hear a nice set of professional coaxials? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shakeydeal Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 Just now, Deang said: Also true. Ever hear a nice set of professional coaxials? My last pair of speakers were Danny Ritchies Super V, using the P-Audio coaxial driver in an OB configuration. Very open and spacious as you might imagine. Shakey 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 25 minutes ago, Tizman said: While this is true, I find that the imaging and soundstage from my heritage Klipsch speakers is still pretty good. It seems that the Heresy II are the best in this respect. Maybe because their more compact size time aligns the drivers better? Yes, that is part of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClaudeJ1 Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 4 minutes ago, Deang said: Also true. Ever hear a nice set of professional coaxials? Yes, of course. Heard Altecs with Mac Tubes right after high schools. Belonging to my friend's Dad. Now I'm the Dad. LOL. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tizman Posted January 8, 2019 Share Posted January 8, 2019 I’m going to go out on a limb, and say that what makes most recorded music sound “real” is done better by horns than by DR speakers. Real music, heard in person at a concert, just doesn’t have directional cues as distinct as a stereo recording most of the time. I love stereo recordings, but they don’t really correspond to my real life concert experiences. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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