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Doesnt anyone ever talk about music anymore?


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From reading the responses most of you listen to classical, jazz, rock etc, does any one listen to Gospel? Gospel is my genre of music. I like some of the newer artists but I really prefer some of the old commissioned days with Fred Hammond, Keith Staten and the guys. Also, I listen to the early Winans, their music sounded great then. Who can forget Mahaila Jackson or James Cleveland and not to mention Sam Cooke in his gospel days. I'm not trying to proselyte any of you, but gospel sounds good emanating from Klipsch.

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I'd prefer to talk about audio and listen to music.

I could expend countless hours expressing my views and opinions on several genres' of music, but alas, my fingers would drop off. 9.gif

Seriously though, I think of music in a multi-faceted fashion.

The complexity of which has led me down the path i'm on now.

I've always had a thing for music.

The way sounds can be combined to convey an emotion or express a thought are paralleled by very little.

I've never had such a deep fascination with the science of audio in general until I got my first pair of Klipsch.

Funny huh?

From the days of my old vanity fair flip top turntable with Sargent Pepper on it, to the 6 years I spent playing Viola, and the last 5 i've played guitar....

I never asked myself that one Damning question.

How DOES a speaker make sound?

It's been crazy ever since.

Bottom line.

I love music.

I use it to modify my emotional status on a daily basis.

It is one the best tools for all occasions. IMHO.

Also, More people should recognize the phsyical benifits of listening to relaxing music.

It's proven that it lowers blood pressure.

Appeasing the auditory senses just make sense. he-he

You can close your eyes, plug your nose, shut your mouth, and stay still in a climate controlled room, but have you ever noticed how hard it is to obtain total silence?

Such is the human animal.

I have three SS systems on at all times in my meager 800sq ft home.

Whenever i'm here in my office on the net, I listen to either my Quartets w/ my Jolida tubes or my 5.1 system.

All the time, every time.9.gif

I thoroughly(sp?) enjoy my office.

It's in the back of the house attached to my bedroom.

It's only 7.6ft x 10ft and it rocks.

But it also can put me asleep.

There's something to be said about that.

BTW. I think it's helping my Athritis.4.gif

Enjoy your music.1.gif10.gif3.gif

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Led Zepplin, Pink Floyd, X, B-52s, U2, Spyro Gyra, Jeff Beck, Stevie Ray Vaughn, Little Feat, Smashing Pumpkins, Roxy Music, UFO, Joe Satriani, Rancid, Psychedelic Furs, The Church, The Cure, ELP, Bush, Gene Loves Jezebel, Billy Idol,The Jam, The Stranglers, The Vines, The Hives, The Strokes, REM, Smithereens, Traffic, Clapton, The Clash, Nickleback, Greenday, Lene Lovich, Eve6, Fuel,Camper Van Beethoven, Yes, The Who, The Offspring, The White Stripes, Our Lady Peace, Eric Johnson, Nirvana, Elvis Costello, Pearl Jam, Creed, Alice in Chains, MxPx, The Ataris, 8 Stops 7.....

Just a random sampling from my rack.

HA Ha ha ha....and we are supposed to find common ground....

Every day...a new world...6.gif

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Such lists of music to sample. Such joys in the listening. Strange to think that most of us fell in love with this stuff listening to a transistor radio under the bed clothes.

Also interesting to note how much of the music is really old stuff from the '60s and beyond.

I wonder if any of us can really claim we enjoy that music, on our high blown systems, more now than we did back in the day when we had the above mentioned device pinned to our ears and our parents thought us asleep.

Of course the sound is infinitely better. Entire vista's of the nuance of sound (not to mention the bass) have opened up we never knew existed, but the magic we felt....

It may have changed, but has it really improved?

More and more these days I find myself picking up details in the performance rather than absorbing the whole. It is becoming harder and harder to listen casually and I find that only at the end of the day when I am falling asleep in the chair that the old appreciation really returns.

And here is the worst part. Deep down I have the feeling that the solution is to take a step down from the system I have now make a concious effort to reduce the quality, if you will, so that I will free my mind from examining the detail and get back to the performance.

Am I alone in my maddness?

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I'm with you, maxg.

My musical addictions were born by listening to a fold up record player, (maybe with a FR of 150-10,000hz)! I must say that Klipsch was one of the few items capable of rebirthing that initial joy of discovering that new music for the first time. If this wasn't so, I would likely end up like most consumers - happy with whatever is on the mass market shelves. That is why I'm here.

I have arrived at the "stage of enjoyment" with my system - the stage where I am essentially happy with it, and am no longer seeking endless upgrades (I am seeking a Belle for center duty, but am not "pushing" to make it happen - I'll do this when price/item/location is right). There is only so much one can do (especially given budget constraints). I have reached (in my mind) that point of diminishing returns - that point where I feel my system kicks rear, drops jaws, and leaves 99% of systems in the dust.

I feel that arriving at this conclusion removes the "overanalysis" of my own system, and allows me to just enjoy it. Instead of looking for faults, I'm looking for software. It's all about the music!

This means that I can focus on the very reason I built this monstrosity in the first place - rockin' the house!!

Here's a sample of the material I play through my setup:

Grateful Dead

String Cheese Incident


Talking Heads

Pink Floyd


King Crimson

Frank Zappa

Genesis (with Peter Gabriel, that is)

Peter Gabriel

Weather Report

Bob Marley

....Plus the usual compendium of "classic rock" artists, such as The Rolling Stones, The Who, Led Zeppelin, Eric Clapton (especially material prior to the mid '80's or so), Allman Brothers, Stevie Ray Vaughan, U2 (again, material prior to the mid '80's), and Yes.

My biggest difficulty is finding good sounding copies of these old classics. Yeah, I know, go vinyl. But that's another slippery slope......

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Great topic! This is something that I have been contemplating myself for some time. I've often wondered if getting into audio equipment meant paying more attention to the sound and less attention to the music. I sure hope not! I sometimes wonder if I enjoyed music any less twenty years ago when all I had to listen to was an all-in-one cheapo system.Great topic! This is something that I have been contemplating myself for some time. I've often wondered if getting into audio equipment meant paying more attention to the sound and less attention to the music. I sure hope not! I sometimes wonder if I enjoyed music any less twenty years ago when all I had to listen to was an all-in-one cheapo system.

For me, getting into audio happened because I was into the music. I like to hear every detail a composer put into writing, details which sometimes get lost due to poor recording or poor equipment recreating the recording. As to enjoying music more twenty (in my case twenty or thirty) years ago, I have thought about that several times and could only conclude that back then, I had a lot more free time and less responsibility, leaving time to do nothing but listen. That precious time today is much more scarce, yet the ambient noise that comes from a wife, son, dog, three cats, and the very annoying train whistles is somehow much more plentyful. So who says life is fair?

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I haven't posted in quite awhile. But to answer MaxG's question..it's a resounding YES! That's what my weekend nights are reserved for! Listening to music. I have been obsessed with music since I was 8 years old..I never got over it. Started with the Beatles, and I never looked back. Although I probably took the main stream route, i.e. Aerosmith, America, Alice Cooper, Ace, AC DC, Allman Brothers, Argent, Association..well OK so much for the "A"s..you get the picture..and when I'm not LISTENING in the music room, I have music in the background, in my shop, when rebuilding engines, working on cars, wiring in remote starters..if not there, always in the cars/trucks..I guess the only time I don't listen to music is when I'm at work.

As for going back to the old equipment..yeah, I sometimes think of that. I too remember having that fold up turntable, with detachable speakers..and of course trying to modify it after heaing my Dad's Sansui amp and Akai speakers, and that Garrard turntable. I think we all cherish those memories of growing up with our "cheap" equipment..I think it was more the mood, and the times, when we first heard that music which we cling so dear to..BUT..that said..

I started with Klipsch Heresys when I was 19..I finally got KHorns when I turned 26..had em ever since..(I'm old now..46!! Hah!) anyway..I always remember how I loved those Heresys, so bought another pair to supplement the system, and this I can truly say..

YES they're great speakers..but

NO..I wouldn't go back to them, only them..there is a big difference in the sound, and memories or not..nothing can replace the way the way the music sounds now..

Yes, MaxG..we are out there listening to music..just always trying to achieve the best sound we can!!


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Alan, I know by reading your posts, both here and at the Asylum, and reviewing your website's jazz list, that you are into the west coast stuff and have a vast collection of most of the artists on the west coast labels. I find it interesting that you make no mention of Andre Previn and his trio jazz on the Contemporary label. I have taken a great interest lately in the music of Andre Previn and his Contemporary recordings. Cant get enough. My favorites are "King Size" "Like Previn" and "My fair Lady" (I know that this is technically a Shelly Manne record, but its a Previn record to me) I also like "Duet", on Columbia. What are your thoughts on Previn? I know you must have scads of his records as well those of other artists on Contemporary that he plays on.

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I just ran across a gospel CD that I think is cool, way cool. Believe it or not it's by a group named "Blind Boys of Alabama", formed at the Talladega School for the Blind in 1939. This is also known as the Helen Keller School. My wife's people live near there, so I recognized the cover. Hard to believe this group has been in continuous operation since 1939. Anyway, looks like somebody pulled them into a nice studio in California, brought in some really good session players and let them go. There's a track of "Amazing Grace" done to the tune of "House of the Rising Sun" that's really cool. The whole CD sounds kinda raw, like a live recording, but studio made. I'm really enjoying it. Some nice double-bass and steel guitar on there.

Somebody up above mentioned Carlos Santana, I was really taken by his Supernatural disc, as many were. Based on that I just bought his new CD Shaman, but was disappointed by it till I got to tracks 9,10,11. Some really cool stuff there, lots of hard pickin. I don't know how he doesn't break strings on his guitar, he hits some of those notes so hard.


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I waited a couple of days before posting a reply to your question;

"And here is the worst part. Deep down I have the feeling that the solution is to take a step down from the system I have now make a concious effort to reduce the quality, if you will, so that I will free my mind from examining the detail and get back to the performance.

Am I alone in my maddness? "

I wanted to get it right and try to state it in simple terms.

As you know, I've plugged away slowly at building my 2 channel system, dollar by dollar, one component at at time. Now a year later, I'm at the point of intense involvement with the music each time I play an LP or CD. Not listening for detail, but really listening to and enjoying the performances of the talented musicians. A concert in my home. Kelly would call it "SET Magic", and I would have to agree. All of the components seem to create a presentation of wonderful "MUSIC". At a time when many here seem to be looking for the "right" amp or other component, I think I have achieved what I wanted a year ago when I purchased my Belles. A truly great listening experience everytime I sit down, put on an LP or CD, or even if I don't sit down. The music lives outside the speakers, no components bring attention to itself. Without a doubt there are still some refinements I would like to roll in such as possibly better base isolation platforms, and better IEC power cords. At present I do not feel the need to spend any additional money for components or upgrading. I truly can't wait to listen to music every day.

My answer is a definite Yes to have things improved, and I enjoy some of my very old Jazz LP's more than I ever did before, some of which I've had a very long time. BTW, cost has always been a consideration, so my system is certainly not in "the best money can buy" category, it simply does a great job of presenting the music. No changes planned.

Klipsch out.

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I have all of the Previns that Contemporary released (I own every Contemporay 12" release from the 50's and 60's--"collector mania" strikes again)--I look at Previn as Les Koening's version of Blue Note's "The Three Sounds" or Prestige's "Red Garland Trio" recordings. While I think Garland's LPs are head and shoulders above the others, all of these are, on the surface anyway, very simple, not-very-challenging recordings that probably played in the background at countless cacktail parties some 40 years ago. My favorite is the Freeman/Previn 'Double Play' LP, or maybe the solo-piano Vernon Duke record. I like Previn, I just dont think any of these records merit any inclusion in any "best" list.

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Another go at reponding to Jazman - failed last time for some reason.

Thanks for thinking out a proper response. If what you say is correct then the way forward is indeed forwards as opposed to stepping back in quality.

That is a relief - my investment to date has not been wasted.

Time to let Arco loose with those 300B's and 2A3's to put my long serving PP amps to shame.

(Arco has been suggesting that upgrade ever since he heard the system. As soon as I get the cash together we will find out if he, and you, are right.)

With a bit of luck and a following wind tomorrow I should be able to sell off the Accuphase and maybe even the Klipsch Heresy's....Of course that would leave me totally Klipschless for the first time in 4 years.

Will I have to hand in my membership to this place?

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Ummm, this might sound crazy coming from me, the one of the staunchest of the SET advocates in this forum but I have been giving it a LOT of thought the last few months

Although I think moving to an upgrade in your amplification would be worthwhile given the output tube you are using, I don't know if going to SET amplification is the answer for everyone during all conditions. What I am really saying is that I believe SET amplification can bring about the most intimate interplay with the music and has a quality that I do not think ANY push-pull amplifier I have heard brings to the presentation. There is no amplifier that is more free sounding of artifacts and glare when done properly. And there is no amplifier (in general) that has that almost surreal sense of palpable reality without exaggerating some aspect of the presentation.

BUT.... I think the top vintate PP amps done very well (with an example such as the EICO HF-81) can offer a certain soul, rhythmic drive, and BALANCE that is VERY alluring and just might bring you more in touch with the music in a visceral way, this depending on recording and setup. I don't think I will ever be without a good SET of some sort, but I also know that I have found some damn amazing magic in great vintage gear that I have NOT found in any of the modern amps. Perhaps this is what some of the MAC proponents feel as well (even though I have not been a big MAC lover in the past).

A 2A3 Monoblock SET amplifier resides in my main system. I love it and listen to music EVERY day always amazed at how fluid and open these amps can be. But I do believe that if I was allowed to keep only ONE AMP in my entire collection, it would have to be my first EICO HF-81. Yes, I am GLAD no one forces me to make this decision as it would not be a rewarding one to make. But the EICO and I presume some other vintage units strikes that delicate balance between revealing, musical, and SOUL STIRRING, something that does not always come about.

The SET amps DO DO THIS.... but something about these vintage amps massages the soul like no other. IT is the best of the AM radio blasting down the backroads combined with the best of high fidelity... and the music ALWAYS seems to matter.


addendum: This is not a edict to rush out an either buy vintage or SET...but a notice to the awareness of the different options and paths here...and the various roads one can take. Sometimes the back road is slower, but reveals more beauty...

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Well now I have heard it all. Say it aint so. MH saying SET might not be the way to go the moment I suggest I might.....

Didn't Arco pick up an Eico recently anyway? I wonder if I culd tempt him to bring that round as well...

Frankly I have absolutely no idea how well my current amps perform against any of the much discussed items on this forum either generically or in my setup.

The only thing I know for sure is that KT88 loaded kicks the butt of 6550 WE loaded and therefore wiped the floor with the Accuphase which is supposed to be a decent SS amp.

Well anyway - money first - playing second.

All this and I have Tony pressuring me to change my current cartridge / arm / phono stage setup instead.

Which way is up again? And how is it the moment I see some money coming in I see more of the green stuff flying out the door?

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