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Jeff Matthews

Freedom of Speech?

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Just now, DizRotus said:

In before¬†ūüĒí

Pessimist (or optimist?).

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1 minute ago, oldtimer said:

Pessimist (or optimist?).

 

Kiwanis

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Odd Fellow would be more accurate.

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49 minutes ago, BigStewMan said:

If a thread about free speech is locked, then does that mean that this is a tyrannical forum? 

 

=== tyrannical Rex - my Grandsons favorite dino‚ÄĒ

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1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

free speech in this country only means the federal government is constitutionally prohibited from prosecution and incarceration of a citizen for exercising the right.¬† It does not by any means prohibit the right of one's employer to fire you for something you say. ¬†ÔĽŅ

That is not correct.  There is a Constitutional right to free speech in government employment.  

 

Quote

Thus, government employees do have some First Amendment protections. "Employees working in the private sector often [don't understand] that the constitutional First Amendment right to free speech applies to government employees but not employees working for businesses," said Christopher Olmsted, an attorney with Ogletree Deakins in San Diego. 

source

 

I've had occasion to look into the law on this in a past case involving allegations by a deputy county clerk of wrongful discharge after she unsuccessfully ran for county clerk.

 

 

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1 hour ago, oldtimer said:

Jeff, we have covered this before.  Disregarding the obvious facts of both the war and the moon landing (there is a good show on cable right now called Truth Behind the Moon Landing on the science channel) free speech in this country only means the federal government is constitutionally prohibited from prosecution and incarceration of a citizen for exercising the right.  It does not by any means prohibit the right of one's employer to fire you for something you say.  

Um it's a bit more complex than that, it applies to the States as well, and in civil cases such as defamation.

 

Start with Gertz v. Welch and New York Times v. Sullivan and work you say from there.

 

You are absolutely correct that freedom of speech doesn't exist in the workplace unless specifically protected, such as Union speech, Whistleblower Act, etc.

 

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3 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

That is not correct.  There is a Constitutional right to free speech in government employment.  

 

source

 

I've had occasion to look into the law on this in a past case involving allegations by a deputy county clerk of wrongful discharge after she unsuccessfully ran for county clerk.

 

 

so where does it end is your question?  The guy will not be thrown in jail over it.  If the elected school board feels enough pressure from the constituents to fire him, he will get fired.  Is that wrongful?  Where does the will of the people end regarding the individual right?  I don't know, this always seems to be a balancing act.  (for the knee jerk reactors please note I am only asking questions and not taking a position)

 

Travis, yes, it is always more complex than that, but this is the Klipsch forum.  Academic discussions are not the strong suit around here.

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5 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

ThatÔĽŅ is not correct.¬† There is a Constitutional right to free speechÔĽŅ in ÔĽŅgovernment employmentÔĽŅ.¬†¬†

I think it is better stated that there are certain exceptions for government employees.

 

However,  the SCOTUS case of Garcetti was pretty decimating and I have not seen a very forgiving decision out of 5th Cir. for Govt. employee speech rights.

 

Social media policies are enforceable if they are reasonable, for speech on and off duty.

 

Travis 

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2 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

I think it is better stated that there are certain exceptions for government employees.

 

However,  the SCOTUS case of Garcetti was pretty decimating and I have not seen a very forgiving decision out of 5th Cir. for Govt. employee speech rights.

 

Social media policies are enforceable if they are reasonable, for speech on and off duty.

 

Travis 

So, should it be a violation of a school principal's rights to say something like, "I don't believe this is true even though we have to teach you it is."?

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There is no right free speach on an internet forum.  The owner can set whatever terms and conditions he wants

 

You all know the answer to this, so here is a simple test.  I want all of you to put a signature line in you work email that is blatantly anti-semetic, or racist.  You can quote someone else if you want.  Send it to five of your customers, outside users and cc your boss on one.  

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Zen, you are too transparent and living in the past.  Keep er movin.

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8 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

So, should it be a violation of a school principal's rights to say something like, "I don't believe this is true even though we have to teach you it is."?

Hmmm in the Holocaust situation, for sure yes, ok to fire him, no violation of rights.  If the answer was in reference to having to teach evolution or abstinence,  different question.  It would depend on the context and the forum he said it in, etc. to some extent.  I would have to thing about that

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7 minutes ago, dwilawyer said:

Zen, you are too transparent and living in the past.  Keep er movin.

Haha!

 

Zen, it is kind of funny the way you will say stuff like, "There's this guy whose name I'd really like to mention, but..."   LOL  Oldie does the same thing.

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5 minutes ago, Zen Traveler said:

Did you delete my posts?

Yep. 

 

 

Nothing get by you does it?

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1 minute ago, dwilawyer said:

Hmmm in the Holocaust situation, for sure yes, ok to fire him, no violation of rights.  If the answer was in reference to having to teach evolution or abstinence,  different question.  It would depend on the context and the forum he said it in, etc. to some extent.  I would have to thing about that

Do you think the law can articulate a distinction like you are trying to express?  "Moon landings?  No problem.  Holocausts...  Now that's a different story."

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3 minutes ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Haha!

 

Zen, it is kind of funny the way you will say stuff like, "There's this guy whose name I'd really like to mention, but..."¬† ¬†ÔĽŅLOL¬† Oldie does the same thing.

Yeah but notice "AOC" gets by the censors but you can't mention the POTUSA in something everyone acknowledges...(Btw, that was allowed under Obama. )

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1 minute ago, Jeff Matthews said:

Haha!

 

Zen, it is kind of funny the way you will say stuff like, "There's this guy whose name I'd really like to mention, but..."   LOL  Oldie does the same thing.

But Oldie can do it without hitting you over the head with it. 

 

Pundits =  politics

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