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buckaroo

Heresy IV versus Heresy III

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Has anyone compared the two side by side in a listening test?  I am very curious to discover listening / review opinions of the two models.

 

I am also wondering if Klipsch has considered continuing production a Heresy version that is aligned with the Heresy III (no port, smaller box) for those that might desire the "Classic" design. In essence, they could call it the Heresy Classic.

 

In full disclosure, I own a pair Heresy III's and love them. I have other (non Heritage) Klipsch speakers in various rooms in the house as well. I was considering purchasing an (additional) pair of Heresy's when the Heresy IV emerged;  so, I am curious what people think in comparative terms.

 

Buck

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no - you would have to buy a Heresy 3 if you need the same size  speaker but the H4  is only 1 inch taller - same woofer - different crossover -10hz more bass output /flared port at the rear - /different midrange  driver- -there is an improvement in the bass for sure -

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  Those of us who attended Chief Boneheads class last Oct. listened to a very well done listening comparison between the Heresy III and Heresy IV.  The comparison was in the listening room of the lab and was about as controlled as one would ever hope to expect.  You will be hard pressed to find an attendee who would say the IV is not a significant improvement over the III.  

  I'll be the first to admit I'm not blessed with the Golden Ears many claim to possess,  however,  I do trust my ears implicitly.   The most significant improvement to me was in the bass response.  Simply put,  the IV sounds like a MUCH larger speaker than the III.  

  I would suggest you wait on your purchase until you've listened to the IV...and save your penny's in the meantime.  The IV's are a little more $.

 

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Thank you for the replies thus far. Especially the reply about the comparison done at Klipsch.

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On 1/24/2020 at 10:33 AM, Randyh said:

no - you would have to buy a Heresy 3 if you need the same size  speaker but the H4  is only 1 inch taller - same woofer - different crossover -10hz more bass output /flared port at the rear - /different midrange  driver- -there is an improvement in the bass for sure -

Ported boxes in general are larger given the same size woofer.

Looks to be a lot of worthwhile improvements, particularly in the midrange.

The only drawback is the rear firing port, which will make placement more of a concern vs sealed box.

All the extra extension below 58hz will be produced by the port.

At least 12-15 inches from any rear wall I would imagine to prevent boom.

There are some clever ways one may get around this if a certain placement is mandatory, but they usually don't look the best.

 

Edited by Automojo

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Yes indeed, it is the rear fire port that makes me hesitate on the Heresy IV. I have owned several different rear fire ports in the past and their placement is not as "forgiving" as a sealed box or a front fired port IMO. So I am curious to learn from those who have done comparisons between these two. I suppose in the end I should take my H III's along with me to a dealer that has H IV's and compare myself. I would also like to hear the Cornwall IV.

 

The alternative is to buy H IV's / Cornwall IV's from an authorized dealer, with a verifiable liberal return policy; in short, a demo in my home. I hate Klipsch fever sometimes...Klipsch Acquisition Syndrome (KAS)!

 

But it would be worse to be without Klipsch speakers by far!!!!

 

Buck

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Well, I got it too!  Selling/trading 4 Heresies to get new H IVs. 

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On 1/27/2020 at 11:52 PM, buckaroo said:

Yes indeed, it is the rear fire port that makes me hesitate on the Heresy IV. I have owned several different rear fire ports in the past and their placement is not as "forgiving" as a sealed box or a front fired port IMO. So I am curious to learn from those who have done comparisons between these two. I suppose in the end I should take my H III's along with me to a dealer that has H IV's and compare myself. I would also like to hear the Cornwall IV.

 

The alternative is to buy H IV's / Cornwall IV's from an authorized dealer, with a verifiable liberal return policy; in short, a demo in my home. I hate Klipsch fever sometimes...Klipsch Acquisition Syndrome (KAS)!

 

But it would be worse to be without Klipsch speakers by far!!!!

 

Buck

 I also have H3's and they sound great with tubes and a subwoofer. I'm interested in the 4's, the tractix mid has my attention, but will wait until there are more real world reviews before jumping on. 

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Even though the IV’s cabinet is larger.....remember you can still plug the rear port.

It uses the same woofer.. and sealed configurations are much more forgiving for volumes differences.

you could also adjust the internal volume with various types of materials if something was slightly off, but I’m  assuming it will be close enough not to notice much of a difference.

So if you think about it this way you can have two different types of bass box configuration easily changed on the fly

A win, win IMHO!

Some  speakers still provide port plugs to change the bass box alignment 

This, on top of the midrange, tweeter phase plug and crossover update should be a second win win.

Edited by Automojo

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8 minutes ago, Automojo said:

.remember you can still plug the rear port.

 

 

 

definitely not ,

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On 1/24/2020 at 12:01 PM, Zim. said:

  Those of us who attended Chief Boneheads class last Oct. listened to a very well done listening comparison between the Heresy III and Heresy IV. 

 

the midrange   and highs  drivers of the CW4  - H4  are identical  ------- the midrange horn is different , the highs horn is identical -

 

-K-702 1.75” (4.45cm) Polyimide diaphragm compression driver/midrange -

 

K-107-TI 1” (2.54cm) Titanium diaphragm compression driver/ highs 

does anyone know if the mids driver is 8ohms -or 16 ohms -

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Randyh, explain the “definitely not” ...it seems to use the identical woofer as the 3’s, which are sealed.

And sealed boxes are forgiving to slight increases in volume by their very nature.

Alternatively the internal volume can be easily adjusted to the 3’s spec.

I fail to see any issue with this...especially if you happened to have bass issues because of the rear port in your set up...

The issue with plugging the port on many speakers is because the woofers EPB isn’t designed for sealed alignments... and can cause a number of electrical, and physical issues.

Not the case here as the woofer appears unchanged from the 3.

The crossover points may have changed between the woofer/ mid, but I doubt this would cause a big issue.

Ine could easily find out by some experimentation

Regardless... This is only an issue if you’re having problems with the rear port configuration....

HIfi has always been a hobby for me, I probably take after my father he built all his amplifiers preamp’s and speakers from kits

I don’t have an issue experimenting and making things work in my listening environment... and learning how things work, particularly speakers because in my opinion nerves the most important link in the chain, and can have the biggest issues because of the listening environment...
Regardless the “definitely not” comment  seems to make a little sense to me, unless I’m missing something?

 

Edited by Automojo

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Hey all!  Im new to the forum and a new Klipsch owner and new to Hifi in general.. just starting to build my system.  Im interested to know what "improved bass" means regarding the H4s?  I recently bought a set of new B-stock H3s (and I love em).  I then bought an old set of kg4s to put in a spare room, but when I heard the difference between them, mainly the high end clarity, I sought out some old used H1s.  I have now compared the H1s to the H3s... As Far as bass, The H3s have plenty. Dare I say probably more then need vs high end.  The H1 has very clear low end but not nearly as loud or present. But the H1 seemed to have more highs.  Its hard to say which pair I like better... I almost thought about running one H3 with one H1 as pair...but visually and just out of principle....  

 

If improved means more focused or clear, Id say yes, thats desirable. But if its sounding louder Id say its not necessary.. or at least not for me to feel the need to trade up. And of course, a pleasing sound is so very subjective...   

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11 hours ago, Automojo said:

Randyh, explain the “definitely not” ...it seems to use the identical woofer as the 3’s, which are sealed.

And sealed boxes are forgiving to slight increases in volume by their very nature.

Alternatively the internal volume can be easily adjusted to the 3’s spec.

I fail to see any issue with this...especially if you happened to have bass issues because of the rear port in your set up...

The issue with plugging the port on many speakers is because the woofers EPB isn’t designed for sealed alignments... and can cause a number of electrical, and physical issues.

Not the case here as the woofer appears unchanged from the 3.

The crossover points may have changed between the woofer/ mid, but I doubt this would cause a big issue.

Ine could easily find out by some experimentation

Regardless... This is only an issue if you’re having problems with the rear port configuration....

HIfi has always been a hobby for me, I probably take after my father he built all his amplifiers preamp’s and speakers from kits

I don’t have an issue experimenting and making things work in my listening environment... and learning how things work, particularly speakers because in my opinion nerves the most important link in the chain, and can have the biggest issues because of the listening environment...
Regardless the “definitely not” comment  seems to make a little sense to me, unless I’m missing something?

 

If you block a port in an enclosure designed with a woofer optimized for that enclosure size you will end up with a too-large enclosure and a low-Q bass loading for a sealed system. You will end up with a shelved low bass response tapering off up around 200Hz and well down in bass response below 100 Hz compared to that same woofer in the ported enclosure. You might gain some power handling but you shoot the bass response all to heck. I would not suggest to anyone that plugging the port of the IV, or adding a vent to the III is a good idea. 

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3 minutes ago, DavidF said:

If you block a port in an enclosure designed with a woofer optimized for that enclosure size you will end up with a too-large enclosure and a low-Q bass loading for a sealed system. You will end up with a shelved low bass response tapering off up around 200Hz and well down in bass response below 100 Hz compared to that same woofer in the ported enclosure. You might gain some power handling but you shoot the bass response all to heck. I would not suggest to anyone that plugging the port of the IV, or adding a vent to the III is a good idea. 

perfect answer -

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6 hours ago, DavidF said:

If you block a port in an enclosure designed with a woofer optimized for that enclosure size you will end up with a too-large enclosure and a low-Q bass loading for a sealed system. You will end up with a shelved low bass response tapering off up around 200Hz and well down in bass response below 100 Hz compared to that same woofer in the ported enclosure. You might gain some power handling but you shoot the bass response all to heck. I would not suggest to anyone that plugging the port of the IV, or adding a vent to the III is a good idea. 

 

6 hours ago, Randyh said:

perfect answer -

If it is the same woofer with the same (basically) the same box, stuffing the port definitely is an option.  It should not work it's way up to the impedance at crossover to bother anything else.  Automojo has a good point and these types of woofers are fine with the closed loading and the shelf will be consistent with HIII.

 

Now if you were actually working with two different woofers then I would say fine though even with a 12" woofer in that small of box, very few home stereo woofers would have a problem with "too large".  These are high efficiency woofers, not very heavy subs made for tiny isobaric systems.

 

The plug defeats one of the main reasons for the IV though dual loading option, like PSB T3 and others, is also a good sales point.  Klipsch should sell port bungs for the Heresy IV.  I plug the ports on my 160Ms for better / smoother loading and blending with the subs I use as their stands.

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8 hours ago, DavidF said:

If you block a port in an enclosure designed with a woofer optimized for that enclosure size you will end up with a too-large enclosure and a low-Q bass loading for a sealed system. You will end up with a shelved low bass response tapering off up around 200Hz and well down in bass response below 100 Hz compared to that same woofer in the ported enclosure. You might gain some power handling but you shoot the bass response all to heck. I would not suggest to anyone that plugging the port of the IV, or adding a vent to the III is a good idea. 

 

I just performed this test a couple weeks ago with my Elac 6.2 bookshelf bass reflex speakers, multiple tests with REW and my new miniDSP umik, in both "sealed mode (port plugged using a piece of tight fitting foam)" and stock as designed and delivered BR cab. The effect in this case was a loss approx 10hz extension starting @ 50 hz with my speakers. And a loss of db @ 45 hz. Nothing like what you state above. I ran these tests out of curiosity, as i went on to add a sealed sub to the mix, and more tests. Most of the end effect in my case was a loss/reduction of output starting @ 48 hz and below. 

 

I can post the response graphs if you need visual proof. Nothing happened like you depict above.

Use some common sense. Both the Her III and IV  use the same LF transducer, the K-28-E. The end effect of porting the new IV cab was ~ 10hz lower bass extension, from 58 to ~ 48hz,  Klipsch published data. I seriously doubt if you were to put a foam plug in the rear port of a IV, you would lose bass output < 100hz as you declare. Sure didn't work that way in the multiple tests I conducted on my Elac bookshelf speakers. If somebody wants to send me a Her III and IV, I would be happy to perform similar testing :) and return them.

 

Have you ever actually tried this experiment yourself, sealed vs bass reflex -same speaker, conducted precise frequency response testing?

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9 hours ago, Randyh said:

perfect answer -

 

a bad answer imo. See my post above.

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double post, my bad.

Well then, lets insert the graphs. Bottom graph is BR port plugged, same speaker:

 

first ELAC bass response.jpg

elac alone but no BR.jpg

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