Are Your Capacitors Installed Backwards ??

[karlson3]

re:Behringer's EP2500 - what I'm getting at - according to definitions of measured distortion - it might be considered a more perfect amplifier than a single ended tube unit.   Regarding Andy Devine's wonderful/classic Twilight Zone portrayal of the incessant nonstop windbag braggart "Frisbee" - remember - he did save the world 😁

 

my theft-proof (weighed over 90lb what idiot would steal it?) and butt-ugly parallel 2A3 amp from ~ 1993 could not do 5 watts clean at 30Hz but sounded "nice" on an early Edgarhorn rig with lps.

 

The Behringer EP2500 -  I'm sure would "measure" better

 

 (the interstage transformers coupling 417A/5842Q to 2A3 are under the chassis) - those high gm 5842Q can be oscillators

[CECAA850]

44 minutes ago, karlson3 said:

re:Behringer's EP2500 - what I'm getting at - according to definitions of measured distortion - it might be considered a more perfect amplifier than a single ended tube unit.  

 

my theft-proof (weighed over 90lb what idiot would steal it?) and butt-ugly parallel 2A3 amp from ~ 1993 could not do 5 watts clean at 30Hz but sounded "nice" on an early Edgarhorn rig with lps.

 

The Behringer EP2500 -  I'm sure would "measure" better

 

 

I would tend to agree.  Many people prefer the sound of the distortion that tube amps produce.

[Deang]

Doesn’t make a hills beans worth of difference unless you are exceeding their operating limits. Clean solid state sounds better than an overdriven tube amp. 

 

[CECAA850]

2 minutes ago, Deang said:

Doesn’t make a hills beans worth of difference unless you are exceeding their operating limits. Clean solid state sounds better than an overdriven tube amp. 

 

I'll agree that any amp that's overdriven sounds worse than an amp that isn't.  I do not however subscribe to the "all amps sound the same" school of thought.

[karlson3]

one of the worse clippers I've heard is my Eico HF87 - think it has something to do with its cathode EL34 "self" biasing so perhaps an HF89 with fixed bias would be a bit better in that regard.

 

I hold a notion that some solid state amplifiers have internal mechanisms with high distortion which are masked (to measurement gear) after negative feedback is applied.  Also, I may tend to gravitate towards single ended topology - whether my notion is anymore than such = 🙄?   (I'd like to hear Nelson Pass's opinions on the matter as to what "matters" -his A40 sounded "different" than the Threshold 800 which sounded "different" from the Stasis 2, which sounded "different" - from the AlephJ)

 

 

[babadono]

11 hours ago, glens said:

Unless you wire a DPDT (break before make) switch as I described earlier, there's no way you'd be able to truly discern whether there's a difference re cap orientation in a crossover.  Even in a low-level feed-through situation where the perceived quality of the sound (apart from picked-up-and-later-amplified noise) is in question, unless you can immediately ("live") switch between methods for A/B purposes, you're fooling yourself - it's virtually impossible to critically A/B with more than moments between the A and the B.

DING,DING,DING---WINNER,WINNER,WINNER Post of the day.

[Deang]

My system sounds different after Jeff adjusts his horn. 

[karlson3]

what's a decent switch to buy?  - A SPST would do DJK's double duty piezo highpass.

[Budman]

4 hours ago, Alexander said:

I think it is time for me to try and find that ignore user button

 

 

 

.

love that button

[karlson3]

2 minutes ago, Deang said:

My system sounds different after Jeff adjusts his horn. 

the good 'ol "butterfly effect"

[babadono]

Switches to change polarity of a capacitor in a crossover add or take away something that you can hear?

OH MY whatever will we do?

[Don Richard]

18 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

adjusting the top-most horn position for time-alignment, on music,  was detectable by me to about 1/64th of an inch. 

 

That's about 16 thousandths of an inch. You would have to lock your head in a vise to keep it from moving enough to upset the alignment, unless you were listening from 100 feet away. It's all about the angular difference from moving your head. Trigonometry proves you wrong.

[CECAA850]

Just now, Don Richard said:

 

That's about 16 thousandths of an inch. You would have to lock your head in a vise to keep it from moving enough to upset the alignment, unless you were listening from 100 feet away. It's all about the angular difference from moving your head. Trigonometry proves you wrong.

Quit sciencing up the thread Don.

[Don Richard]

1 minute ago, CECAA850 said:

Quit sciencing up the thread Don.

 

Sometimes I just can't help myself...

[glens]

17 hours ago, Jeffrey D. Medwin said:

From what I experienced this afternoon ( a 6.5 hour listening session ), adjusting the top-most horn position for time-alignment, on music,  was detectable by me to about 1/64th of an inch.

 

Jeff, I enlisted the aid of both Pythagoras and my trusty HP-42S to come up with a few figures for you.  As you must be aware, if you've got your two drivers time-aligned it will only be truly so through a plane surface (ideally) or along a single line through which that plane surface would extend if the plane surface were applicable.  Let's just go with the single line for the moment, to be safe (really, just to make the math easier).  As you position yourself along this line, looking at the speaker, all you see is a point because you're looking at the "end" of the line.

 

Not knowing how far apart above and below this line are your high and low frequency drivers, I went with a figure of 14" between them as an approximation.  Likewise, not knowing your listening distance from the speakers I went with 12', 10', and 8' away from them.

 

Okay, you've got your ears level side-to-side and facing the speaker along that line that's been mentioned.  Your ears are level side-to-side because it''ll make a difference as you'll see.  From 12' away, if you raise your ears above the line (or lower them below it) by 0.159 inches, you will change the effective distance between an ear and each of the two drivers by 1/64".

 

If you're 10' away, that figure becomes 0.133 inches deviation above or below the "line of ideal."

 

If you're 8' away, the figure becomes 0.107 inches above or below to net 1/64" differential distance between the drivers.

 

If the drivers are only 12" apart perpendicular to our "line" the figures are 0.185, 0.154, and 0.124 respectively.

 

If the drivers are 16" apart perpendicular to our "line" the figures are 0.142, 0.117, and 0.094 inches above or below to net an effective change in distance from you of +/- 1/64".

 

Don't worry, it only took a couple of minutes to crunch the numbers.  Stack-based RPN is very efficient for such tasks.

 

As should be evident, it's of utmost importance that you position your head fairly exactly (and repeatably) while listening if 1/64" inch tolerance in time-alignment of your two-way system is desired.  Especially so if an offset of that value is both discernible and distracting.  And don't cock your head side-to-side very much.  I'd think bobbing your head to the music might not be too bad so long as you keep your ears level.  If you rock your head side-to-side to the music it might make you nauseous, or heaven forbid, trigger a seizure as the speaker comes and goes in and out of time alignment differently between your left and right ears.

 

Well, I'm just having a bit of fun.  I'm not that critical in my listening habits but I suppose there are those who are.  From my perspective, the extra listening joy obtained by such attention to detail falls well shy of being both practical and cost-effective.  But I'm the keeper of only my own time and money so what others do with theirs is fine by me.  And there is a benefit to me in that I can find the topic more than a little entertaining.

[richieb]

15 minutes ago, CECAA850 said:

Quit sciencing up the thread Don.

 

=== no, he’s correct, mathematically speaking. Of my many strong suites, mathmatics were the strongest— 

[CECAA850]

2 minutes ago, richieb said:

 

=== no, he’s correct, mathematically speaking. Of my many strong suites, mathmatics were the strongest— 

He may very well be correct but this is not the appropriate thread for facts.

[karlson3]

proper number of microphones - how many channels must a mixer have for some music ?

 

[Deang]

16 minutes ago, glens said:

 

Jeff, I enlisted the aid of both Pythagoras and my trusty HP-42S to come up with a few figures for you.  As you must be aware, if you've got your two drivers time-aligned it will only be truly so through a plane surface (ideally) or along a single line through which that plane surface would extend if the plane surface were applicable.  Let's just go with the single line for the moment, to be safe (really, just to make the math easier).  As you position yourself along this line, looking at the speaker, all you see is a point because you're looking at the "end" of the line.

 

Not knowing how far apart above and below this line are your high and low frequency drivers, I went with a figure of 14" between them as an approximation.  Likewise, not knowing your listening distance from the speakers I went with 12', 10', and 8' away from them.

 

Okay, you've got your ears level side-to-side and facing the speaker along that line that's been mentioned.  Your ears are level side-to-side because it''ll make a difference as you'll see.  From 12' away, if you raise your ears above the line (or lower them below it) by 0.159 inches, you will change the effective distance between an ear and each of the two drivers by 1/64".

 

If you're 10' away, that figure becomes 0.133 inches deviation above or below the "line of ideal."

 

If you're 8' away, the figure becomes 0.107 inches above or below to net 1/64" differential distance between the drivers.

 

If the drivers are only 12" apart perpendicular to our "line" the figures are 0.185, 0.154, and 0.124 respectively.

 

If the drivers are 16" apart perpendicular to our "line" the figures are 0.142, 0.117, and 0.094 inches above or below to net an effective change in distance from you of +/- 1/64".

 

Don't worry, it only took a couple of minutes to crunch the numbers.  Stack-based RPN is very efficient for such tasks.

 

As should be evident, it's of utmost importance that you position your head fairly exactly (and repeatably) while listening if 1/64" inch tolerance in time-alignment of your two-way system is desired.  Especially so if an offset of that value is both discernible and distracting.  And don't cock your head side-to-side very much.  I'd think bobbing your head to the music might not be too bad so long as you keep your ears level.  If you rock your head side-to-side to the music it might make you nauseous, or heaven forbid, trigger a seizure as the speaker comes and goes in and out of time alignment differently between your left and right ears.

 

Well, I'm just having a bit of fun.  I'm not that critical in my listening habits but I suppose there are those who are.  From my perspective, the extra listening joy obtained by such attention to detail falls well shy of being both practical and cost-effective.  But I'm the keeper of only my own time and money so what others do with theirs is fine by me.  And there is a benefit to me in that I can find the topic more than a little entertaining.

 

Does anyone know what in the hell this guy is talking about?

[glens]

Who, me?  All I was saying is that if you raise or lower your head by less than a quarter inch at any of three given distances with any of three given separations between the drivers, you'll cause a change of driver misalignment greater than Jeff's 1/64 inch.

 

Or are you now moving on to picking on me?  Hahaha!