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DizRotus

CARES Act PPP abuse?

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9 minutes ago, rplace said:

 

Not true.

 

The Paycheck Protection Program is meant to encourage businesses to keep their workers employed or quickly rehire them, so the SBA will forgive loans if all employees remain on payroll for eight weeks and the money is used for covered expenses.

 

 

 

 

That's a part of it.  There's a lot of loan money out there.

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Again some OP generated thread drift.  

 

Did you watch Jeopardy last night Rich @rplace?  I thought of you my friend.  One of the clues was the first few bars of The Victors; no words, just the music.  No one rang in.  I was surprised, but not as surprised as Alex, but after all, he’s always surprised no one gets the many Canadian trivia clues.

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8 hours ago, rplace said:

I don't see any conservatism or fiscal responsibility, which is what I am looking for.

If you are looking for that, there's not anyone in Washington or in many of the states that are going to give that to us.  It's sad and I would like to see the same thing, but it will never happen without a clean sweep in our congress and that's won't happen without 10's of millions of people waking up and thinking clearly.  If we all continue to ***** and whine, trade jabs that have no real substance, facts or thoughtful alternate ideas, we all become fixated with our own finite ideas, beliefs and pure hatred of certain people or political tags which is really why we remain cyclic with our entire political system.  Our entire congress passed this, so if you think this package is terrible, for whatever reason then logically, wouldn't you blame, and hold responsible, the entire lot instead of pointing fingers at one party or one person. 

 

You would think that on just one of these threads that goes off the rails because of emotional responses and personal fringe beliefs, we could collectively come up with an idea for change that we can all agree to.  Just thinking out loud and please understand that currently, the business I run is shut down, I have 6 people laid off while trying to decide what the best course of action is, the manufacturers that we get product from are shut down completely and my wife is laid off for the first time in her life, so I understand as well as anyone, what the problems are currently. 

 

There are many intelligent people on this forum, when is it time to tap those resources for something positive besides audio?  I truly hope you are all doing well and can survive the virus as well as the economics we all face.

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19 hours ago, DizRotus said:

Today was supposed to be the day for my small business to apply for funds under the Payroll Protection Package (PPP), part of CARES Act, to continue to pay our three employees so they would not be unemployed and not need to claim unemployment compensation.  Despite my diligent efforts and those of our accountant and business banker, we were unable to submit an application.

 

Our accountant has heard from her colleagues that financially sophisticated clients, doctors, lawyers, hedge fund managers, etc. are abusing the spirit of PPP.  Rather than needing funds to prevent employee layoffs, PPP is seen as a low interest loan.

 

sorry to say... capitalism at its finest and the need for oversight

 hope these folks feel real good when they look themselves in the mirror

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A CPA I know is going gangbusters helping his clients apply for grants and loans.  He says there's a mad rush before it runs out.  He says he hasn't been this busy in a long time.

 

So, there you go.  I knew it could be an opportunity to make money helping people this way.

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FYI I was able to submit PPP application.  A friend needs help filling out PPP application, but his understanding of computers is extremely limited.  He asked if I use FaceTime.  I don’t have grandkids so I’ve never needed FaceTime.

 

 

 

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Good deal..

hope it gets worked out for ya. The ranch that the boy works, is trying to theirs pushed thru.  His last scheduled day is Tues.

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This is an important topic. I’m unlocking it, hoping I’m doing the right thing.

Leave politics out. Sad part is that you guys are pretty smart. Use your brains to help. This is not the time for division. We are all in this together, whether you like it or not.


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15 hours ago, dtel's wife said:

This is an important topic. I’m unlocking it, hoping I’m doing the right thing.

Leave politics out. Sad part is that you guys are pretty smart. Use your brains to help. This is not the time for division. We are all in this together, whether you like it or not.


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All joking aside.....no kiddin'.  Diz I hope you were successful.

 

My small business has 35 employees.  All but about 8 are drawing unemployment.  Last Friday and Saturday, we were making tons of calls to get this PPP going.  The bankers were confused as hell and they didn't have all the answers.  The Gov "system was down" for awhile and the banks couldn't do anything.  We got the application done with the bank that could figure it out the quickest....as we as many...are concerned the funds will run out.

 

No doubt, without the funds......we will close.  Our bills are huge and they won't stop.  We can't provide jobs now either.  Our fear is...even if we get the loans...the gov has extended/loosened the unemployment rules.  If we get the funds, our staff may not come back and stay on unemployment.  Why not?   They may be able to receive more money for doing nothing through the end of the year.

 

I haven't thought about politics one bit during all this.  I don't care who is sitting up there.  There will be many shattered dreams regardless.  I haven't been in my house in 3 weeks.  I haven't touched or hugged my wife in 3 weeks.  I'm exposed to COVID at work.  Extended family many miles away and alone. 

 

We all could keep these kinda statements up....  

 

Sadly, yea.....There will be those that poach this process of government stimulus.   

 

jc

 

 

 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, jwc said:

All joking aside.....no kiddin'.  Diz I hope you were successful.

 

Thanks JC.  Now that the application process is completed, the wait begins to see whether they find some flaw in our application or the funds run out.  I hope your efforts were successful too.

 

Part of me understands how my brother’s accountant would suggest that his thriving small business apply for PPP despite no need to lay-off employees.  I guess the accountant feels a fiduciary responsibility to alert his client to a “legal” low interest loan.  The other part of me thinks my bother needs to find an accountant who respects the spirit of the PPP and doesn’t see it as another way to help the rich get richer.

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It’s hard not to feel the process is designed to frustrate and discourage applications.   I must have started the application a dozen times before completing it successfully, I hope.

 

Since applications are through specific banks, I suspect each application platform is unique.  Repeatedly, I was timed out before completing the application.  There is no way to save your progress.  The best I could do was take screenshots as I went along.

 

Each time an error message popped up, I took a screenshot.  It was then necessary to start again at square one.  Repeated error messages repeatedly stalled the process.  There was no way to speak to a human for assistance.  An email on Friday to tech support received an automated reply that promised a response “soon.”  I’ve not yet received a response.

 

It was repeatedly necessary to “trick” the system to complete the application.  For example, the platform did not like zeros when contained in fields asking for dollar amounts.  My address is 2509; that zero worked fine, but try to enter $2,509.19 and you got “$259.19”  Without any guidance, I was left to experiment to get the field to accept a monetary amount that contained a zero.  Eventually, I discovered that the the cursor could be placed between the “5” and “9” and the “0” could then be inserted after typing the rest of the number.

 

I’m sure that flaw, and others, are a reflection of the urgency with which banks and the SBA were compelled to act.  My business banker at the local branch continued to stay in email contact with me over the weekend, on his personal time.  He advised me the application site would be down for maintenance for at least 2 hours starting at 3:00 pm EST on Saturday.  Changes and improvements in the application process were obvious when I resumed the application after 7:00 pm.  The zero glitch remained, however.  I was resigned to getting stuck until being contacted by tech support.

 

I started again at square one and worked past prior hurdles.  I got to the place where monthly payroll expenses were entered and needed to be supported by attached documentation.  I expected to get another error message that I could screenshot and eventually share with tech support, but, surprisingly, it worked.

 

At the end it spoke of “e-initialing” and “e-signing” the completed application, but reading the instructions multiple times did not indicate how that was possible.  Instead, I printed the application, initialed and signed the old fashioned way, scanned application and attached it to the online application.

 

JC and I, and other small business owners, went through this to help our employees, not to help ourselves.  Without this “loan” we would be compelled to lay-off our employees and they would be compelled to draw unemployment.  It’s disheartening to think that the financially sophisticated are abusing the spirit, if not the letter, of the Payroll Protection Program.  Something is wrong when hedge fund managers can get low interest loans that dry up a fund intended to help individuals avoid unemployment.

 

The local banker followed up by email on Saturday evening to see how things went and to offer what little help he could.  He seemed genuinely pleased to receive an email from me Saturday evening that contained a screenshot of an application confirmation.

 

@jwc

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I can understand how they it didn't go as well as they wanted....

Whenever you run a prototype there is a lot of "It looked good on paper". 

 

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Good luck everyone.  I'm soooo darn glad I'm retired!  Amazeballs is the only thing I can say after reading this thread.  Again, good luck.

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In my opinion, anyone and I do mean anyone that abuses this program, or any other program afforded by the government should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Some people are just low life.


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1 hour ago, DizRotus said:

It’s hard not to feel the process is designed to frustrate and discourage applications.   I must have started the application a dozen times before completing it successfully, I hope.

 

Since applications are through specific banks, I suspect each application platform is unique.  Repeatedly, I was timed out before completing the application.  There is no way to save your progress.  The best I could do was take screenshots as I went along.

 

Each time an error message popped up, I took a screenshot.  It was then necessary to start again at square one.  Repeated error messages repeatedly stalled the process.  There was no way to speak to a human for assistance.  An email on Friday to tech support received an automated reply that promised a response “soon.”  I’ve not yet received a response.

 

It was repeatedly necessary to “trick” the system to complete the application.  For example, the platform did not like zeros when contained in fields asking for dollar amounts.  My address is 2509; that zero worked fine, but try to enter $2,509.19 and you got “$259.19”  Without any guidance, I was left to experiment to get the field to accept a monetary amount that contained a zero.  Eventually, I discovered that the the cursor could be placed between the “5” and “9” and the “0” could then be inserted after typing the rest of the number.

 

I’m sure that flaw, and others, are a reflection of the urgency with which banks and the SBA were compelled to act.  My business banker at the local branch continued to stay in email contact with me over the weekend, on his personal time.  He advised me the application site would be down for maintenance for at least 2 hours starting at 3:00 pm EST on Saturday.  Changes and improvements in the application process were obvious when I resumed the application after 7:00 pm.  The zero glitch remained, however.  I was resigned to getting stuck until being contacted by tech support.

 

I started again at square one and worked past prior hurdles.  I got to the place where monthly payroll expenses were entered and needed to be supported by attached documentation.  I expected to get another error message that I could screenshot and eventually share with tech support, but, surprisingly, it worked.

 

At the end it spoke of “e-initialing” and “e-signing” the completed application, but reading the instructions multiple times did not indicate how that was possible.  Instead, I printed the application, initialed and signed the old fashioned way, scanned application and attached it to the online application.

 

JC and I, and other small business owners, went through this to help our employees, not to help ourselves.  Without this “loan” we would be compelled to lay-off our employees and they would be compelled to draw unemployment.  It’s disheartening to think that the financially sophisticated are abusing the spirit, if not the letter, of the Payroll Protection Program.  Something is wrong when hedge fund managers can get low interest loans that dry up a fund intended to help individuals avoid unemployment.

 

The local banker followed up by email on Saturday evening to see how things went and to offer what little help he could.  He seemed genuinely pleased to receive an email from me Saturday evening that contained a screenshot of an application confirmation.

 

@jwc

We sent 3 applications through 3 local banks.  All three processes were different.

 

One asked us for superficial information and it felt like a prescreening.  There was no information of our expenses or anything.

 

Another at least asked us how much money we need but nothing else.

 

The third asked us all kinds of stuff.  We provided the payroll information/cost (actual documents).  We provided some business financials and business information.

 

Off to the races on who can accommodate us.

 

jc

 

 

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Just now, jwc said:

 

Off to the races on who can accommodate us.

 

Good luck.

 

I was told that if you didn't have a pre-existing relationship with the lender, you were SOL.

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1 hour ago, dtel's wife said:

In my opinion, anyone and I do mean anyone that abuses this program, or any other program afforded by the government should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. Some people are just low life.


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Generally, the biggest offenders are the most likely not  prosecuted. You know - it’s who you know and who you bl - -

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Thank you for applying for a Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) Loan with XXXXX XXXXXXX. Bank. Below is an overview of the next steps with regard to your application.  

  1. Once we have all of your information, the Small Business Administration (SBA) requires us to verify the accuracy of your application. That means that we must review your payroll calculations and all documentation that you submitted, and certify that your loan request is based on accurate numbers and calculated correctly. This takes time, and we appreciate your patience.
  2. After we verify the accuracy of your loan request, the next step is for us to submit your PPP application to the SBA through their system, E-Tran. All customers for whom we have received an E-Tran approval from the SBA will receive a notification to that effect at the end of the day. Due to the volume, we are not able to reach out individually as each approval is received. If you get to this point and decide that you want to cancel your application for any reason, please email XXXXXXX XXXXX with your request. 
  3. Once we receive the E-Tran approval and we have a complete application with all required supporting documentation, our PPP/SBA system will send you the SBA note and borrower final application to sign. This is the key step. Please remember that, as a condition to the PPP loan, you must certify in your PPP application that current economic uncertainty makes your PPP loan request necessary to support your ongoing operations. In other words, if a PPP loan is not necessary to support your ongoing operations as a result of the current economic uncertainty, you are not eligible for a PPP loan. 
  4. Once you sign your note, you can expect that funding will be forthcoming. If you have a XXXXXX XXXXX Bank checking account, we will deposit the funds into the checking account or use ACH. Please note that, at this time, the U.S. SBA has not released the SBA note to the banking community. We hope to receive that today, April 7, 2020, but we will not fund approved loans until we have received the note from the SBA. 

We know you are eager to have your application approved and the funding in your account. Please bear with us as we work through the extraordinary amount of loan applications we have received over the past few days. We will continue to update our XXXXXXXXX page and will post to our social channels (Facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn) with the latest information. 

Thank you for your patience and understanding. 

 

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  Thank you for applying for a Paycheck Protection Program (PPP) Loan with XXXXX XXXXXXX. Bank. Below is an overview of the next steps with regard to your application.  
  1. Once we have all of your information, the Small Business Administration (SBA) requires us to verify the accuracy of your application. That means that we must review your payroll calculations and all documentation that you submitted, and certify that your loan request is based on accurate numbers and calculated correctly. This takes time, and we appreciate your patience.
  2. After we verify the accuracy of your loan request, the next step is for us to submit your PPP application to the SBA through their system, E-Tran. All customers for whom we have received an E-Tran approval from the SBA will receive a notification to that effect at the end of the day. Due to the volume, we are not able to reach out individually as each approval is received. If you get to this point and decide that you want to cancel your application for any reason, please email XXXXXXX XXXXX with your request. 
  3. Once we receive the E-Tran approval and we have a complete application with all required supporting documentation, our PPP/SBA system will send you the SBA note and borrower final application to sign. This is the key step. Please remember that, as a condition to the PPP loan, you must certify in your PPP application that current economic uncertainty makes your PPP loan request necessary to support your ongoing operations. In other words, if a PPP loan is not necessary to support your ongoing operations as a result of the current economic uncertainty, you are not eligible for a PPP loan. 
  4. Once you sign your note, you can expect that funding will be forthcoming. If you have a XXXXXX XXXXX Bank checking account, we will deposit the funds into the checking account or use ACH. Please note that, at this time, the U.S. SBA has not released the SBA note to the banking community. We hope to receive that today, April 7, 2020, but we will not fund approved loans until we have received the note from the SBA. 
We know you are eager to have your application approved and the funding in your account. Please bear with us as we work through the extraordinary amount of loan applications we have received over the past few days. We will continue to update our XXXXXXXXX page and will post to our social channels (FacebookTwitter and LinkedIn) with the latest information. 
Thank you for your patience and understanding. 
 

This sounds “promising”????


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1 hour ago, dtel's wife said:


This sounds “promising”????


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Not to worry, the in charge guy running this program was fired yesterday.

JJK

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