Dave A Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 11 hours ago, Seadog said: Of course it will be completely academic since you are getting the Audyn caps, but it would be really interesting to compare the ESR on your stock caps with the Dayton caps. If you want to bring them to the SWAG, I'll bring my ESR meter. I will bring my 885 also. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 16, 2020 Author Share Posted August 16, 2020 @carlthess40 did you get a chance to swap them out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 16, 2020 Share Posted August 16, 2020 (edited) On 8/12/2020 at 7:55 AM, Seadog said: It is the Signstek MESR-100 V2. They are around $70 on Amazon now. It uses 100kHz to measure ESR. It may be on the low end of the electronic measurement equipment spectrum, but I have used it successfully to sort through caps to identify the obviously failing or defective ones that went to the trash. It also seems to discern slight differences within a lot of identical "good" caps, and it will do in-circuit testing for capacitance and ESR. https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-MESR-100-Ranging-Circuit-Capacitor/dp/B00GYSFOM6 Most of the better ESR meters can and do measure in circuit capacitors except the power supply caps in parallel. For accurate measurements of those they will need to be removed. Edited August 16, 2020 by henry4841 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 For you guys who think you can measure caps in circuit accurately I suggest you double check that idea. Go ahead and measure them in circuit and then lift one side up and test it isolated from the circuit and tell us what you see. I have a very good meter and there are no such measure in place claims made for it. Talking to a really good tech about this and he says there are no meters he knows of that do this. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 50 minutes ago, Dave A said: For you guys who think you can measure caps in circuit accurately I suggest you double check that idea. Go ahead and measure them in circuit and then lift one side up and test it isolated from the circuit and tell us what you see. I have a very good meter and there are no such measure in place claims made for it. Talking to a really good tech about this and he says there are no meters he knows of that do this. Yes sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 (edited) 9 hours ago, Dave A said: For you guys who think you can measure caps in circuit accurately I suggest you double check that idea. Go ahead and measure them in circuit and then lift one side up and test it isolated from the circuit and tell us what you see. I have a very good meter and there are no such measure in place claims made for it. Talking to a really good tech about this and he says there are no meters he knows of that do this. ESR meter? Only talking about ESR of caps not value. If not true many sellers of ESR meters of very pricey meters are wrong. I would say if one wants to split hairs there may be some difference out of circuit vs in but not enough to matter in real world. The ESR value of a cap is given on the data sheet of capacitors and different values and voltages have different ratings of ESR along with brands. A slight shift higher in ESR is not going to effect the circuit enough to be a problem. When the ESR is a problem in the cap it is really high. When the ESR value is supposed to be .5 and reads 1 or say 1.2 it is not going to be a problem When a cap goes bad the the ESR will jump considerable like say 8 or even 20 or more and not just a few numbers. Being retired I watch a lot of youtube video's by renowned technicians to sharpen my skills who say you can measure the ESR value of a cap in circuit with ESR meters that claim you can and if I am wrong I am in good company. Edited August 17, 2020 by henry4841 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry4841 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Just thought I would add, if one has a decent ESR meter and do not believe you can measure in circuit there is absolutely nothing wrong with removing the cap to check. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Each to his own of course but I will continue to check off board. Now as to ESR I disagree entirely about those values. I have recapped many crossovers that sound better when done and the only real problem seems to be ESR as far as measurable things go. Most of the time capacitance is in spec but ESR runs from .2 to way over 1.5 and new ones measure typically .02 on the top end and most often .005 or so or less. Based on what I have been told and what I have measured and heard both before and after recaps these ESR values are plenty to effect sound quality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Keep in mind that a perfectly good or brand new electrolytic or polyester will have much higher ESR than a polypropylene. Some engineers and industry insiders will say DA can effect the sound. This is the idea behind charge coupling with DC. There is no real consensus on this one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 Well, the Audyns are in the HF section and all is good. still waiting on caps to come in for the LF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 Maybe the Daytons were coronafied. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 4 minutes ago, Deang said: Maybe the Daytons were coronafied. We'll check the ESR next month. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/12/2020 at 8:55 AM, Seadog said: It is the Signstek MESR-100 V2. They are around $70 on Amazon now. It uses 100kHz to measure ESR. It may be on the low end of the electronic measurement equipment spectrum, but I have used it successfully to sort through caps to identify the obviously failing or defective ones that went to the trash. It also seems to discern slight differences within a lot of identical "good" caps, and it will do in-circuit testing for capacitance and ESR. https://www.amazon.com/Signstek-MESR-100-Ranging-Circuit-Capacitor/dp/B00GYSFOM6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 On 8/12/2020 at 10:03 AM, Dave A said: Those junky electrolytics are 10% but I never use those. which caps do you use --Carl likes Audyn , there is a Solen factory Store pretty close to us-----so that's option 2 - Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OO1 Posted August 17, 2020 Share Posted August 17, 2020 27 minutes ago, CECAA850 said: We'll check the ESR next month. can you return defective caps after you solder them ------ ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CECAA850 Posted August 17, 2020 Author Share Posted August 17, 2020 43 minutes ago, RandyH000 said: can you return defective caps after you solder them ------ ? I didn't even try. I did however send the caps for the second speaker back. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave A Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 7 hours ago, RandyH000 said: which caps do you use --- I have 2 pairs of scala 80's - 2 pairs of heresy 77s and 1 pair of cornwall 78 , all are needing caps ------Carl likes Audyn , there is a Solen factory Store pretty close to us-----so that's option 2 - YMMV and I normally use Dayton 1% but Carl had trouble when he did. I use Audyn at times, the red ones because they sound good to me and have larger values like 68uf I need. I am about to the point where I figure capacitors have different flavors of sound and you need to try some until you find what you like. I see very little difference between Sonicaps and 1% Daytons and I opt for cheaper. Solens seem to be OK too I have just never bought many. I lean towards neutral good measuring caps and something like a DBX Graphics EQ to flavor to suit myself from there. Best is not even have a crossover and use a Xilica but that is overkill for many speakers. Recapping AA crossovers for sale I often use Sonicaps because they do measure well and Bob has made a real market for them in crossovers. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lbk Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 Finally pull 1 xover from a chorus II. In Bob's kit the 68uf is electrolytic, the former ownet replace it with a Dayton audio 68uf. (Huge compared to the elec.). I like the bass and was wondering if the Dayton 68 uf would affect the testing if replace just the 1 6uf and the 2 2uf and keep the Dayton 68uf in the woofer section. Since the highs are in question l am thinking it should be ok.? Opinions, let me know so I can exchange the xover caps. Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MechEngVic Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 8 hours ago, RandyH000 said: which caps do you use --- I have 2 pairs of scala 80's - 2 pairs of heresy 77s and 1 pair of cornwall 78 , all are needing caps ------Carl likes Audyn , there is a Solen factory Store pretty close to us-----so that's option 2 - The Solen tin foil and film caps are great. Super low ESR values and great bang for the buck. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted August 18, 2020 Share Posted August 18, 2020 A good cap for sure, but the values are limited. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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