tt / phonopres / cartridges / vta / rsa / needle grinds alignment The difference between Moving Magnet / Moving Coil / Moving Iron Cartridges

[billybob]

 

 

Saw one in solid granite posted today on internet by Rigaud for

only $50 G... a song.

[VNC Studio]

The Technics is a "bargain" and elegant compared to those other over the top tables. :-D

[ODS123]

4 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

you can replace the stylus  on a MC cartridge ---they replace the entire tip in specialized shops -----and just as good if not superior to the original ----figure about 1k$ or more -

A shop returning a moving coil cartridge to better than new is a big claim.  Before I would buy one, I would want to first make sure that is true.

[ODS123]

 

Curious to know what problem has been solved by all of that contraption 🙂 if after all of that metal work it still does not have best-in-industry low wow and flutter and rumble then I would think all of that is a waste. Not to provoke but it looks like an exercise in over engineering

[LarryC]

Ain't that the truth that $10,000 is quickly spent!  Also, you can see how much trouble is involved with shipping carts around for "retipping" compared to just getting a fine MM to begin with.  

 

From what I've heard myself, high-line Ortofon MM's have a great sound and may outstrip something like the opaque sounding Glider -- JMHO.  (I don't like hi-output MC's anyway).  At least in the past, Needle Doctor has been a good source of advice and online purchase, unless you have an outstanding local store.

 

 -- Larry 

 

 

 

[capo72]

Another thing that is often overlooked and worth noting when choosing a cartridge is matching the compliance (suspension) with your tone arm mass. If you are buying a complete new setup from a manufacturer, then this is already sorted out for you. If you are piecing together your own turntable, then you need to be aware of your tonearm mass and cartridge compliance relationship. 

[artto]

This has been my favorite for many years.

I guess "technically" it sort of fits in the moving iron category, but no "cantilever" in the traditional sense.

I use the Decca Jubilee.

 

 

 

 

[OO1]

11 minutes ago, artto said:

This has been my favorite for many years.

I guess "technically" it sort of fits in the moving iron category, but no "cantilever" in the traditional sense.

I use the Decca Jubilee.

 

 

very wide cartridge  , I have a few Decca  brushes ---------what are the advantages of this  design ---------is it stronger than a  conventional  cantilever ---there are 2 screws  between the tip  , can the tip be replaced  easier -

[MicroMara]

28 minutes ago, artto said:

This has been my favorite for many years.

I guess "technically" it sort of fits in the moving iron category, but no "cantilever" in the traditional sense.

I use the Decca Jubilee.

 

 

 

 

The Decca Jubilee is a moving magnet and not a moving iron pickup . Needle suspension with thread, scans exactly as LPs are cut, unmatched dynamics and liveliness

[artto]

21 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

very wide cartridge  , I have a few Decca  brushes ---------what are the advantages of this  design ---------is it stronger than a  conventional  cantilever ---there are 2 screws  between the tip  , can the tip be replaced  easier -

1) it has pretty high output.

2) the "cantilever" is almost vertical. There is a coil around the "cantilever" at the stylus tip which makes for extremely accurate - they called it - positive scanning. The lateral movements of the stylus are being picked up right above the stylus tip/record surface.

3) the vertical coils pickup the vertical movement of the stylus/cantilever with the same accuracy - looking at the up/down "cantilever" movements directly above the stylus.

 

I don't know about replacing the stylus. I had to send mine back the U.K (Presence Audio) to have it serviced. Cost me $100.

 

Many people claim a love/hate relationship with this pickup. It's not without it's caveats. It really needs to be in a damped arm. Preferably uni-pivot. Mine is on a Moerch UP-4 with a medium mass arm wand, on a Linn LP-12 with Origin Live motor & power supply upgrade. A real pain-in-the-arse to setup and dial-in. But, if you know how to do that................................. 😇

[MicroMara]

1 minute ago, artto said:

1) it has pretty high output.

2) the "cantilever" is almost vertical. There is a coil around the "cantilever" at the stylus tip which makes for extremely accurate - they called - positive scanning. The lateral movements of the stylus are being picked up right above the stylus tip/record surface.

3) the vertical coils pickup the vertical movement of the stylus/cantilever with the same accuracy - looking at the up/down "cantilever" movements directly above the stylus.

 

I don't know about replacing the stylus. I had to send mine back the U.K (Presence Audio) to have it serviced. Cost me $100.

 

Many people claim a love/hate relationship with this pickup. It's not without it's caveats. It really needs to be in a damped arm. Preferably uni-pivot. Mine is on a Moerch UP-4 with a medium mass arm wand, on a Linn LP-12 with Origin Live motor & power supply upgrade.

The Maserati among the pickups! Decca pickups are incredibly good at picking up, reproduce three-dimensionally and inspire with a transparency and dynamics that you will hardly find in other pickups. In return, a Decca pickup requires some experience in adjustment and an excellent medium-weight tonearm. Decca owners rave about these pickups in the highest tones. In fact, they are able to convey a liveliness that will sweep any listener away! There are two small disadvantages of Deccas: 1.  There is a magic limit to the pickup's ability to pick up. If this limit is exceeded, a Decca will distort significantly. Fortunately, this limit is very very high.  2. Dust and dirt become clearly audible. $ 100 for a service is peanuts for an $ 2.750 Cartridge

 

 

 

[OO1]

8 minutes ago, artto said:

1) it has pretty high output.

2) the "cantilever" is almost vertical.

what are you using as a phono preamp

[artto]

6 minutes ago, RandyH000 said:

what are you using as a phono preamp

My NAD M32 has both MM and MC phono inputs. Out of convenience I usually just use that and it sounds very excellent.  Honestly, I don't play records that much anymore. But if I want to get that vintage sweet sound I'll use my Audio Research SP-6B as the phono preamp with the line level out going to a line in on the M32.

[OO1]

18 minutes ago, artto said:

My NAD M32 has both MM and MC phono inputs. Out of convenience I usually just use that and it sounds very excellent.  Honestly, I don't play records that much anymore. But if I want to get that vintage sweet sound I'll use my Audio Research SP-6B as the phono preamp.

  ---Tx Arto -------so   the Decca Jubilee is a MM  cartridge -impressive  -I  now understand it better -- it's exactly what I was looking for ------I certainly learned something new today -

[artto]

14 hours ago, RandyH000 said:

  ---Tx Arto -------so   the Decca Jubilee is a MM  cartridge -impressive  -I  now understand it better -- it's exactly what I was looking for ------I certainly learned something new today -

Randy, Just be aware that this is a tricky beast to dial in. And, it doesn't like AC* turntable motors. That's why I did the Origin Live motor/power supply upgrade on the Linn.

 

OTOH, I have used this in a SME III tone arm with pretty good results. But the SME III also allows you to change the arm mass, and it also has a silicone damping tray/paddles. The Decca (London) Jubilee & Reference are quite heavy. Earlier models like Plum & Super Gold have a metal "can" body and are much lighter. The Jubilee & Reference models are on a different level - substantially better in every way.

 

EDIT: I said DC initially. That's wrong. It doesn't like AC motors - it will pickup the AC 60Hz line noise.

[MicroMara]

Moving Iron cartridges are also connected via the Moving Magnet phono preamplifier input. They have the same RIA standard.

[thebes]

On 8/24/2020 at 1:15 AM, LarryC said:

Ain't that the truth that $10,000 is quickly spent!  Also, you can see how much trouble is involved with shipping carts around for "retipping" compared to just getting a fine MM to begin with.  

 

From what I've heard myself, high-line Ortofon MM's have a great sound and may outstrip something like the opaque sounding Glider -- JMHO.  (I don't like hi-output MC's anyway).  At least in the past, Needle Doctor has been a good source of advice and online purchase, unless you have an outstanding local store.

 

 -- Larry 

 

 

 

Larry has , among others , listened to Ortofon OM 30 and 40's on my older rig. The Ortofon's are very transparent, without being harsh, very musical, very accurate and a replaceable tip.  I, like Larry,  have gone down the  LOMC path, with most satisfying results, but on a limited budget, a quality current MM with replaceable tip is hard to beat.

[thebes]

Great thread by the way. Concise, helpful information for those thinking of getting in to the whole needle thing.

[artto]

On 8/23/2020 at 3:43 PM, MicroMara said:

These are also important facts to consider. Belt-driven TT's and Idler driven TT's have abrasion, direct-drive TT's don´t, but it is said that the platter is not optimally decoupled from the chassis. As in the whole audio technology with all its available components, everyone has to decide for himself and is obliged to his own demands and needs.

 

A Long time ago I had a Luxman PD121 direct turntable. Built like a Rolls Royce and beautiful. It was also my last DD TT. It was in the adjacent dining room and I could place the stylus on a non-moving record and induce system feedback without turning the volume up all that high. Although I'm sure the ultra low mass Infinity Black Widow tonearm and high compliance Sonus pickup didn't help. Tonearm/pickup/turntable selection are all interrelated. Choosing the wrong combination can result in poor results regardless of price.

[MicroMara]

@artto    

 

Facts from the history of TT´s

 

Micro Seiki had several sub-contractors such as Fujiya Audio under the direction of the brilliant engineer Junichi Okumura (Dragon CT and Accutrac technology developer), MTC, Mito, Denso, Akisawa Seiki and Saitama Micro and was on the other side of the world in Japan, making it the largest turntable manufacturer of all time. No other company has ever been able to crack their gigantic quantities. They were specialists and, unlike Dual or PE, they remained a pure turntable manufacturer. It was also a leading company in research and development of drives, chassis and arms. Today, every vinyl fan still knows a DQX 500 or DQX 1000 or the BL91. The Nakamichi TX1000 and Dragon CT were also made by Micro Seiki. But they only made money with the mass production...

 

For many big HiFi manufacturers without their own turntable production, they also offered whole OEM lines. For Luxman they traditionally designed and manufactured all models. But mostly they limited themselves to supplying the entry level models to renowned hifi companies like ADC, Denon, Sharp, Toshiba, Hitachi, Sanyo, Sansui, Kenwood, Telefunken, Saba or Scott. They also supplied the mail order companies Quelle, Neckermann ( Germany ) and RadioShack in America. Between 1976 and 1983, the beginning of the CD era, was the peak time for these OEM models. This coincided of course with the heyday of the vinyl record. Never has there been more and better equipment than in these years.

 

Regards