PistolPete17 Posted February 14, 2022 Share Posted February 14, 2022 (edited) Ten plus years ago I rescued a pair of 1983 Lascalas from an old school. I don't recall much of listening to them in "stock" form, as they were in pretty bad shape and my interest was in restoring them. Out came all the electronics and in went all Crites gear. This included the 4500 crossover and the CT125 tweeters. The results were good. On simple music this setup could disappear and give me a wonderful 3D image (imaging is high on my priority list). However, I was a bit limited to what kind of music sounded good. More complex stuff got bright and harsh real quick. But that's the "Klipsch" sound, right? I lived with the system that way for many years. Months ago I decided to try out the Lascalas in the family room. Likely the best audio room in the house and wife loves them in there (read with sarcasm on FULL). The Lascalas sounded the same with a little benefit of a better room. I knew there was more potential in these guys so I decided to see what I could do as far as modifications. For the record, I have an issue with modding things. I tend to make 27 different mods at once and then I try to decide what changed and what was responsible for that change. Me being me, I braced the side, added the CT120 tweeters, added Deans networks, added DaveA's SMAHL's to the CT120's, and finally put the DE10 tweeters into the mix. Oh, and the original K77's played too. I know, right!? While these were not all added at exactly the same time, they were done too close together and made it difficult to evaluate each change. Here's how it began. While waiting for Dean's stuff, the CT120's arrived. Those (added to the 100% system with Crites 4500) were unlistenable. They literally lasted one song. I've experienced plenty of drivers that needed breakin, but WOW! At the time I attributed this to the networks and thought this tweeter just needed Dean's networks to work right. A month later I got Dean's networks and popped them in. This began the confusing part. Switching between the different networks and the two different tweeters, all while the CT120's and Dean's networks were breaking in had me dazed and confused. I think this was around Christmas and my system got kicked out of the family room in place of a tree. What a perfect time to make another modification, yes? This is when the braces went in. These turned out great, btw. January something the tree left and somehow I snuck the system back into the room. If I can keep the speakers in the divorce it will have been worth it (sarcasm thing again). The braces certainly seemed to have cleaned up and added a bit of bass. Trying the CT120's (after lots of time with Dean networks) with the Crites 4500 all of a sudden sounded ok. Here I began to realize how much their sound changed after being broke in. Again, the sound was just ok. The Crites 4500 still sounded best with the CT125's. The Dean networks sounded best with the 120's, but lacked the 3Dness imaging. This is when Dean told me to see what the K77's sounded like. I dug them out of the basement and holy cow, the imaging was back, mostly. Along with a bit of harshness. But the highs sounded better in many ways. Cymbals sounded proper and I now realized the 120's were too laid back. Also note these tweeters where all auditioned in a top hat box. I always thought time alignment was a good idea and aways HATED the old Lascala tweeter location being in a hole. I believe this negates any good that a lens/horn does on a tweeter mounted there. At this time I was pretty frustrated. I felt like I had several different setups for different music and different volumes. I really believed that the key was to find the right tweeter to match Dean's networks, as his networks certainly sounded best everywhere else. Enter the SMAHL. Well this looked interesting. A new lens for the CT120? Why not? One that when mounted in the stock position eliminates the mounting in a hole thing. Not thinking it could make that much of a difference, I ordered a pair. Also ordered a pair of DE10's and the lens/horn they sell with them from parts express. The DE10's came in first and I'm holding off on any review of them until I know they are completely broken in (and maybe with the LMAHL lens). A few days later the SMAHL's arrived. I used to be a machinist and I can tell you these things are a thing of beauty. Because the top box now had three different tweeters in them (k77,125,de10), the 120's with the SMAHL's went into the stock location. It didn't take long to realize I had something here. The lenses brightened up the 120's. Now cymbals sound real but minus the harshness of the K77's. I can't explain how a lens can change the imaging that much, but they sure as shit it did. For the first time in a while I got lost in the music. Closing my eyes and I swear Fiona Apple was in my room. Instruments were placed properly around the soundstage and they had real dimension to them. I had found it! I had found the right combination that made this a critical listening AND a rock out speaker. I went on listening till the early morning hours and had a very difficult time turning it off. All of a sudden my attention was on the music and not the system. And this, my friend's, is the best compliment anyone can pay to a speaker or audio system. Dealing with Dean and Dave was wonderful. Both have silly amounts of knowledge and their willingness to share it is amazing. Their products are top notch and well worth the price. Knowing what these two components did for my system, I'd happily pay double for them. I am so loving these Lascalas! Thank you @Crankysoldermeister and @Dave A!! Edited February 14, 2022 by PistolPete17 Spelling 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete17 Posted February 14, 2022 Author Share Posted February 14, 2022 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Where do you notice most of the vocals coming out from the mid or tweeter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcn3 Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 8 minutes ago, Wrench said: Where do you notice most of the vocals coming out from the mid or tweeter? vocals always coming from mids -- vocal frequency range tops out at around 3400 hz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrench Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 (edited) I "notice" vocals predominately coming from the CT120 tweeters in my Cornscala's. My Forte II's present the vocals noticeably from the mid's. That's why I ask. Edited February 18, 2022 by Wrench 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 what networks did you get from Dean - pictures did you get the new ODAM caps 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 It's a game of 1% improvements if you are lucky but they do add up Nice looking Industrials. With all of the changes, how did/do you EQ the speakers ? Are you able to perform a frequency sweep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubo Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Wrench said: I "notice" vocals predominately coming from the CT120 tweeters in my Cornscala's. My Forte II's present the vocals noticeably from the mid's. That's why I ask. Play something that is just voice or voice and piano take a magazine or pillow etc and cover the tweeters then cover the mid and determine where the voice is coming from. A speech spectrum is either high-pass or low-pass filtered. Using an HP filter at 20 Hz (upper left) leaves the speech 100% understandable. (This is because the complete speech spectrum is there). An HP-filter cutting everything below 500 Hz still leaves the speech signal understandable. Even though most of the speech energy is cut out, the intelligibility is only reduced by 5%. However, applying a higher cut-off makes intelligibility drop. The other way around, applying an LP-filter makes intelligibility drop very fast. When cutting at 1 kHz, the intelligibility is already less than 40%. It can be seen that the frequency range between 1 kHz and 4 kHz is of high importance for intelligibility. This diagram shows the frequency dependent polar plots from 160 Hz to 8 kHz. It can be seen that the directivity increases from approximately 1 kHz and up. Combining this fact with the importance of frequencies above 1 kHz it is obvious that higher intelligibility is obtained when recording in front of as opposed to behind the person. Human talker, polar plots 1/3-octave intervals. Division 5 dB.(ref.: Chu, W.T.; Warnock, A.A.C.: Detailed Directivity of Sound Fields Around Human Talkers.) https://www.dpamicrophones.com/mic-university/facts-about-speech-intelligibility Mid Range 400-6000 hz Credit to WMCD 2003 https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/profile/453-wmcd/ https://community.klipsch.com/index.php?/topic/28996-technical-information-on-industrial-lascala/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete17 Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 5 hours ago, Wrench said: Where do you notice most of the vocals coming out from the mid or tweeter? In the sweet spot, neither. As cliche as it sounds, the speakers disappear. Especially voices do not seem to come from the speakers at all. I just listened outside of the listening chair to try to answer this question. If I had to pic one, I'd say mid. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete17 Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 4 hours ago, Budman said: what networks did you get from Dean - pictures did you get the new ODAM caps Believe it’s a AA type with a few tweaks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete17 Posted February 18, 2022 Author Share Posted February 18, 2022 2 hours ago, Bubo said: It's a game of 1% improvements if you are lucky but they do add up Nice looking Industrials. With all of the changes, how did/do you EQ the speakers ? Are you able to perform a frequency sweep. Thanks! My ears are the only devices I've used so far to evaluate these guys. Seeing how many people use the A-55G's, I just ordered a pair of these too. Last mod, I swear! 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Budman Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 thanks for the pics i should be getting my set in the next couple weeks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbeefheart Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 Does anyone have a link or model number for the air core inductor in the woofer circuit used in those networks? Once I have more time to play with my speakers I want to try and compare the ERSE Super Q cored inductor, an air core inductor, and the stock one. I need to look around for air core options so any recommendations are greatly appreciated from anyone with actual ears on experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimjimbo Posted February 18, 2022 Share Posted February 18, 2022 28 minutes ago, captainbeefheart said: Does anyone have a link or model number for the air core inductor in the woofer circuit used in those networks? Once I have more time to play with my speakers I want to try and compare the ERSE Super Q cored inductor, an air core inductor, and the stock one. I need to look around for air core options so any recommendations are greatly appreciated from anyone with actual ears on experience. I'm sure Dean would be happy to provide you with a parts list, part numbers, prices and sources.....just ask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 @Crankysoldermeister I imagine Dean would tell you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PistolPete17 Posted February 19, 2022 Author Share Posted February 19, 2022 I will say one trick I finally tried worked wonders in this room. The old, put the subwoofer in your listening chair and walk the room listening for the best sound trick. Did that and stacked the two SVS subs on top of each other in that spot. A sub or subs have never matched/blended with the LaScalas better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 2 hours ago, captainbeefheart said: Does anyone have a link or model number for the air core inductor in the woofer circuit used in those networks? Hmm. There is no air core on the woofer, but when I do use one, it’s usually this. https://www.parts-express.com/2.5mH-14-AWG-Perfect-Layer-Inductor-266-380 The ones on the network are the .25mH and a .37mH, which is in series with the midrange. They are made by Jantzen. Also available from partsexpress. -4dB using a 3636 UT autoformer, and I use a 10uF Audyn Plus for the primary. The two caps in the high pass are AudioCap PPT Theta. I always tell them to slide the network as close to magnet of the compression driver as possible to offset any damage I may have caused. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbeefheart Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 52 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said: Hmm. There is no air core on the woofer, but when I do use one, it’s usually this. Yes you are correct my mistake. You answered my question on when you do use one in the woofer network which one you get. I'll have a look at the one you linked from parts express. Thanks a bunch!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 The air core has .08 higher DCR than the stock part - for those that are wondering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainbeefheart Posted February 19, 2022 Share Posted February 19, 2022 6 minutes ago, Crankysoldermeister said: The air core has .08 higher DCR than the stock part - for those that are wondering. Yes I just noticed the DCR is .36 ohms. With something like a Cornwall I would think it the DCR would have more impact where on my La Scala's I should be okay. What's your experience? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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