Advice for the newly addicted.

[jjptkd]

2 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Don’t you realize that the yuppies are our age, okay my age?  They already have the LPs that we likely have.  There may be a number of yuppies in our select company.  The hipsters and their younger friends are more likely the ones you’re referring to.

 

 I know a handful of people into records my age or older every one of them look for used original or second pressings no new productions. Seems it's like a treasure hunt so much out there always come home with something every once in awhile they find a big score to brag about-- these people know what they're looking for and have been collecting for decades. Only people I know that buy new albums are young. Most of my friends (and I) hang out in the digital realm either CD's, downloads or streaming. 

[babadono]

10 hours ago, nick89rs said:

Right now the plan is just to take everyones advice and just live with them for a while.  We are starting to notice some peculiarities.  Having the speakers make us feel like we are ON a rooftop with the beatles or shake the room with bass on a flowrida track is incredible but somehow Freddie Mercury sounds like hes is singing to us through a tin can with a string (an exaggeration but it was not good).  All from recordings that are of equal quality according to the app so that makes me feel like im excited for the crossovers to come so i can see if that makes a difference or if i need to start tracking down possible issues. 

You are discovering the ability of really good efficient loudspeakers to make good recordings sound sublime and bad recordings sound like sheet. Unfortunately bad ones are not uncommon.

My $0.02

[babadono]

And to be clear this is the pipe foam I is talkin'bout

[Islander]

55 minutes ago, jjptkd said:

 

 I know a handful of people into records my age or older every one of them look for used original or second pressings no new productions. Seems it's like a treasure hunt so much out there always come home with something every once in awhile they find a big score to brag about-- these people know what they're looking for and have been collecting for decades. Only people I know that buy new albums are young. Most of my friends (and I) hang out in the digital realm either CD's, downloads or streaming. 

 

And at $35-45 for an LP, it may stay that way.

[Shakeydeal]

21 minutes ago, babadono said:

And to be clear this is the pipe foam I is talkin'bout

 

1999 called and they want their digital camera back......😄

[billybob]

On 9/6/2022 at 12:26 PM, nick89rs said:

Thank you all for what im sure is the best actual advice of just enjoying what i have for a while. 

Im enjoying all my music in a new and fantastic way and probably just got ahead of myself a bit. 

I appreciate all of the replies, enthusiasm and support.  Thanks for the welcome to the community!

Yes, you are on the right path...

Congrats!

[babadono]

Never claimed to be a pro photog....that's ClaudeJ1 or Sputnik Or Fido

[Islander]

11 minutes ago, Shakeydeal said:

 

1999 called and they want their digital camera back......😄

 

Just needs some flash.

[Shakeydeal]

9 minutes ago, babadono said:

Never claimed to be a pro photog....that's ClaudeJ1 or Sputnik Or Fido

 

Hey, I'm right there with you. I can't take a picture for s&*t.....

 

 

[Marvel]

Well, the foam is at least visible on the back edges...

 

 

[jjptkd]

46 minutes ago, Marvel said:

Well, the foam is at least visible on the back edges...

 

Much easier to see in your copy

[babadono]

2 hours ago, Marvel said:

Well, the foam is at least visible on the back edges...

 

 

Yep ...and that seals the bass horn into its last fold....Horn paths with leaks...baaaaad🐑

[KT88]

15 hours ago, ODS123 said:

 

No, there is nothing wrong with it. ..In fact, so long as the amp is operating within it's design limits - which it almost certainly is - it is highly unlikely you would hear ANY improvement by moving to a pricier amp.

 

My advice Nick:

 

if you have a limited budget you should prioritize your spending around speakers, then room treatments...  Any modern day amp that isn't driven into audible distortion - which is unlikely to EVER happen given the high efficiency of your Khorns - is going to sound pretty much like the other.  The sole exception would be boutiquey low-wattage tube amps which are basically engineered to alter the sound.  Which really isn't a very audiophile-thing to do

 

That said, there ARE reasons to spend more on an amp.  For example, better tactile build quality, appearance, features like tone controls, equalizer, mono switch, wattage meters, etc...  ..All of these things can be important, but don't spend more thinking the basic, unaltered signal (ie., no tone controls engaged) will somehow sound different.

 

But don't take my word for it.  Read the following.  Years ago Richard Clark, an Audio professional, devised a $10,000 challenge whereby ANYONE who could reliably (defined as better than chance) distinguish one properly functioning amp from another would take home $10,000.  ..But they had to compare them while "Blinded" from knowing which amp was playing.  NO ONE took home the money.  And thousands of people tried, including audio reviewers and audio obsessives like those here on this forum.    Again, NO ONE took home the money.

 

So spend more if you wish, just don't do it expecting better sound.  And though I don't know for sure, I'm pretty certain Paul W Klipsch himself would agree with this.

 

https://www.stevemeadedesigns.com/board/topic/193850-richard-clark-10000-amplifier-challenge/

 

 

That is very interesting and somehow I believe it. Only, and I wrote this here in a tube thread, I wonder what you can hear at all under these test circumstances. Personally, I always hear differences or even disturbances more clearly over a longer period of time, let's say a week. Another aspect. Even if you can't go into that much depth with Richard Clark's test setup, it would be worth knowing what spectrum of amps were involved. How many different amps were used in all the tests? How different or similar were the amps in each ABX configuration? It might be helpful to see how much a long-term comparison of say a week would yield different results. Strictly speaking, also as ABX configurations in a blind test. 

And quite apart from that, what speakers were used? If the speakers used were "amplifier friendly", e.g. with a flat impedance curve at 8 ohms, then the results are different than if a speaker is very "current hungry". I had a Sonus Faber Amati 14 years ago. My MC 2102 was almost too weak to control this speaker adequately. Is the test saying I wouldn't hear a difference if I plugged in a department store amp compared to a 4 ohm power monster driving this SF Amatis?

[ODS123]

19 hours ago, KT88 said:

And quite apart from that, what speakers were used? 

 

Did you read the details??  I'm thinking you didn't...

 

"if the listener requests, they can substitute whatever source, source material, amplifiers, speakers (even headphones), and listening environment they prefer, within stipulated practical limits. The source material must be commercially available music, not test signals."

 

"Amplifier requirements
The amplifiers in the test must be operated within their linear power capacity. Power capacity is defined as clipping or 2% THD 20Hz to 10kHz, whichever is less. This means that if one amplifier has more power (Watts) than the other, the amplifiers will be judged within the power range of the least powerful amplifier .
The levels of both left and right channels will be adjusted to match to within .05 dB. Polarity of connections must be maintained so that the signal is not inverted. Left and Right cannot be reversed. Neither amplifier can exhibit excessive noise. Channel separation of the amps must be at least 30 dB from 20Hz to 20kHz.
All signal processing circuitry (e.g. bass boost, filters) must be turned off"

 

Pretty amazing that NO ONE claimed the prize.  ..Heck, 2% THD is pretty liberal!  ..Humans hearing isn't nearly as sharp as audiophiles believe.  So my final comment to the OP (Nick?) is that 99.9% of how a system sounds is about speaker choice and room setup.  Buy a nicer amp if you wish, but don't expect the sound to change

[KT88]

1 hour ago, ODS123 said:

 

Did you read the details??  I'm thinking you didn't...

 

"if the listener requests, they can substitute whatever source, source material, amplifiers, speakers (even headphones), and listening environment they prefer, within stipulated practical limits. The source material must be commercially available music, not test signals."

 

"Amplifier requirements
The amplifiers in the test must be operated within their linear power capacity. Power capacity is defined as clipping or 2% THD 20Hz to 10kHz, whichever is less. This means that if one amplifier has more power (Watts) than the other, the amplifiers will be judged within the power range of the least powerful amplifier .
The levels of both left and right channels will be adjusted to match to within .05 dB. Polarity of connections must be maintained so that the signal is not inverted. Left and Right cannot be reversed. Neither amplifier can exhibit excessive noise. Channel separation of the amps must be at least 30 dB from 20Hz to 20kHz.
All signal processing circuitry (e.g. bass boost, filters) must be turned off"

 

Pretty amazing that NO ONE claimed the prize.  ..Heck, 2% THD is pretty liberal!  ..Humans hearing isn't nearly as sharp as audiophiles believe.  So my final comment to the OP (Nick?) is that 99.9% of how a system sounds is about speaker choice and room setup.  Buy a nicer amp if you wish, but don't expect the sound to change

I believe the study to a certain extent. But if the choice of speakers was really open, imagine someone choosing a 1 to 4 ohm monster power-hungry speaker. How am I supposed to believe that in this case it's not easy to distinguish a cheap amp that only delivers ok at 8 ohm from a power giant that doesn't break down at 2 ohm?

[Deang]

You’re wasting your time Heinz. 

[Toz]

When you read entire test details you will find the clincher. That is that EQ is added to one amp to bring it's frequency response into a close match to the other.  In my mind this only tells us that if you adjust two amps to sounds the same, they will indeed sound the same.

[ODS123]

2 hours ago, Toz said:

When you read entire test details you will find the clincher. That is that EQ is added to one amp to bring it's frequency response into a close match to the other.  In my mind this only tells us that if you adjust two amps to sounds the same, they will indeed sound the same.

 

Why is that a "clincher" ?

 

What amp these days would even need such an EQ adjustment to match another apart from the aforementioned (by me) boutiquey, low wattage tube amps??  

 

Name me one modern day amp (or receiver) from companies like Yamaha, NAD, Mark Levinson, Arcam, McIntosh, Rotel, Crown, Onkyo, Anthem, Denon, Marantz, Pioneer, etc.. that doesn't claim an even frequency response in it's specifications?  You can't.  ..And yet people here routinely claim to hear differences b/w these various brands.

 

And to KT88's question...  Forcing a low-power S/S amp to drive a 1-2 ohm speaker to 120db thereby causing it to go into thermal overload and shutdown is not evidence of audible differences b/w amplifiers.  ..What it IS is evidence of choosing the wrong amp for the application.

 

Sorry guys...  No gotcha! here.  

 

 ..Hearing differences b/w modern day amps is illusory, IMHO.  

 

 

 

 

 

[jjptkd]

51 minutes ago, ODS123 said:

 ..Hearing differences b/w modern day amps is illusory, IMHO.  

 

 Hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion-- I do find it odd however you here preaching there is no audible difference between modern day amplifiers but according to your signature line you're sporting a $7k McIntosh integrated? Why not a $300 Yamaha? Do you just like "the look" or is it the prestige? It certainly can't be because it sounds any different or better right? 

[ODS123]

1 hour ago, jjptkd said:

 

 Hey, everyone is entitled to their own opinion-- I do find it odd however you here preaching there is no audible difference between modern day amplifiers but according to your signature line you're sporting a $7k McIntosh integrated? Why not a $300 Yamaha? Do you just like "the look" or is it the prestige? It certainly can't be because it sounds any different or better right? 

 

I like the look, feel, and history of the McIntosh brand.  But most importantly, I Iike that they continue to include Bass, Treble, and Mono switch with every pre-amp and integrated amp they sell.  But does it sound better when they are defeated or at neutral??  No....  not a bit.