Older vs newer Klipsch, new member.

[Travis In Austin]

21 minutes ago, Idontknow said:

I've never jumped on the newer is better band wagon. I enjoy my Heresy II's and Forte I's just fine. I think the Forte III and IV were more of a let down. Also, Klipsch tried to soften the top end of the newer speakers and the way the were originally is why they were what they were. They didn't need to be anything else other than to help keep the business flowing. All the newer Heritage are way overpriced now. 

The IV measures better, and has better coverage. All things being equal it will sound better to most people (preference), however, it’s certainly true that in any individual room a speaker can certainly perform differently.
 

Initially, to me, the 1 sounds Ned’s better than the III, but that was sighted, subjective. Blind testing a I and a IV there was a clear difference I preferred the IV in two tests on two days. 
 

All the professional literature, Heyser, Toole, Olive, Olson from the 40s, up to the present says that we all are going to tend to prefer what we are used to. To really know you have to control for bias. Level matched, source material, same room, ability to switch back and forth quickly, and preferably be blind. That takes a tremendous amount of work.

 

Travis 

[OO1]

On 6/16/2023 at 3:11 PM, Mark Swearengin said:

Hello everyone! The sound that they produced just blew my mind!   

the Heresy 1 is a phenomenal speaker  

[Ceptorman]

On 6/16/2023 at 7:48 PM, Mark Swearengin said:

That does not surprise me based on my limited experience.  I continue to be enchanted by these little Heresys!  I'd love to hear the Fortes in a larger room and may just arrange to do that at my office.  Of course now I'm eyeing a nice pair of Cornwall I's wondering how they would sound.  One could become addicted!!

You might as well save some time and money and find a pair of Jubilees!

[Travis In Austin]

On 6/16/2023 at 2:11 PM, Mark Swearengin said:

played Jazz trumpet for many years, but I could certainly see a rock and roller preferring the bigger brother.

Doc Sevrenson had LaScalas. 
 

I think Klipsch Khorn, and do Jazz Trumpet more like like than any other speaker.

 

However, the recordings have got to be good, they are very unforgiving of poor recordings.

 

Travis

[henry4841]

Older ones sound excellent. Newer ones sound different. 

[OO1]

3 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Older ones sound excellent. Newer ones sound different. 

Exactly ,  

[henry4841]

12 hours ago, henry4841 said:

Older ones sound excellent. Newer ones sound different. 

I should add, newer ones excellent too but with a different sound. I like the sound my old LaScala. It is the sound PWK designed and built. Excellent sounding then and excellent sounding now. What you are hearing with a newer Heritage speaker is the sound the engineer at the time thought sound better than the one before it. He then convinced management who put the product in production. I do not believe any of those engineers would say their predecessor designed a bad sounding speaker.  

 

Much can be said about amplifiers as well. All the better amplifiers sound really good but with a different sound. When talking over 1K doubtful there is a bad sounding amplifier. 

[Islander]

My experience with Heresys is that when I upgraded a good-sounding Heresy II to Heresy III specs, using the Klipsch factory update kit, the speaker did sound better, with deeper and stronger bass and more clarity, plus it gained 2 dB in sensitivity, going from 97 dB/m to 99 dB/m, allowing a better match with the La Scalas.

 

With the La Scalas, I have a pair of 1974 models, which sound good, but when I got a pair of 2007 La Scala IIs, once again, the bass was stronger, although it didn't go any deeper.  As well, the improved appearance of the walnut lacquer finish meant that they went to the front of the room, while the black-painted plywood original La Scalas go to the back of the room, to serve as the Surround speakers.  The LS2s are the Main speakers.  The sound is more important, of course, but the LS2s are improved in every way, except for cabinet toughness.  You can't get everything in one speaker model.

[Flevoman]

1 hour ago, Islander said:

My experience with Heresys is that when I upgraded a good-sounding Heresy II to Heresy III specs, using the Klipsch factory update kit, the speaker did sound better, with deeper and stronger bass and more clarity, plus it gained 2 dB in sensitivity, going from 97 dB/m to 99 dB/m, allowing a better match with the La Scalas.

 

With the La Scalas, I have a pair of 1974 models, which sound good, but when I got a pair of 2007 La Scala IIs, once again, the bass was stronger, although it didn't go any deeper.  As well, the improved appearance of the walnut lacquer finish meant that they went to the front of the room, while the black-painted plywood original La Scalas go to the back of the room, to serve as the Surround speakers.  The LS2s are the Main speakers.  The sound is more important, of course, but the LS2s are improved in every way, except for cabinet toughness.  You can't get everything in one speaker model.

Now you've made me curious. 
Years ago, I had the original La Scala. Now, many years later, I have the La Scala AL-5. 
Unfortunately, I have no idea how the original La Scala sounded, and I can't compare them anymore since I don't have them. 
What's your experience? How does the La Scala II differ in terms of sound from the original La Scala?

And what do you mean with cabinet toughness?.. The fineer? 

[henry4841]

6 hours ago, Flevoman said:

 

And what do you mean with cabinet toughness?.. The fineer? 

I believe I know the answer to that question. At some year Klipsch went to using 1" MDF over 3/4" plywood in their speakers. Denser, flatter and smoother and most importantly cheaper it was a win though I have not found anything wrong with plywood myself. Also MDF is heavy as hell. 

[Mark Swearengin]

I'd have to agree based on my limited testing.  I've not heard the 4's in any configuration, so I can't say anything about them.  I've now added a pair of Cornwall 1's to the fleet!  If I can find a place to set these behemoths, I'll be comparing them to the Fortes and Heresys! ☺️

Edited July 17, 2023 by Mark Swearengin
wrong word

[OO1]

6 minutes ago, Mark Swearengin said:

   I've now added a pair of Cornwall 1's to the fleet!  If I can find a place to set these behemoths, I'll be comparing them to the Fortes and Heresys! ☺️

you can place the Heresy 1's on top of the Cornwall  ,   the Heresy shines at ear level and extra bass from the Cornwall complements the Heresy  

[Islander]

On 7/16/2023 at 9:25 PM, Flevoman said:

Now you've made me curious. 
Years ago, I had the original La Scala. Now, many years later, I have the La Scala AL-5. 
Unfortunately, I have no idea how the original La Scala sounded, and I can't compare them anymore since I don't have them. 
What's your experience? How does the La Scala II differ in terms of sound from the original La Scala?

And what do you mean with cabinet toughness?.. The fineer? 

 

Yes, the veneer.  The Lacquered Walnut is very delicate and easily scratched.  Even resting your hand on the speakers while wearing a watch with a stainless steel bracelet can cause scratches if you move your hand around.  So many sharp corners on those bracelets.  However, when I called Klipsch Customer Service about how to repair some scratch marks on my old black-painted plywood La Scalas, I was told to use a Magic Marker, a felt pen with permanent ink.  I used it and it did make the scratch less noticeable, but I certainly wouldn't use anything like that on the lacquered LS2s.  I have some old Audio Logic speakers, a local brand from Toronto in the '80s.  They're covered in oiled walnut veneer.  The oiled walnut is certainly more scratch resistant, and you can put things on top of the speaker without making dents in the finish, like you get with lacquer.  The helpful guy at Klipsch CS told me that lacquer never really hardens, which is why the feet of anything that's placed on them, even the peel-and-stick rubber or plastic feet of anything that weighs more than a few ounces/50 grams (rounding off, wise guys), can leave little dents in the finish.

 

Sure, oiled walnut (or cherry, or oak) finishes need to be oiled periodically, and La Scalas or Khorns are really big speakers, so it will take more than five minutes to apply all that oil, but maybe that's really not too much of a tradeoff for a more durable finish that won't make you nervous whenever a vacuum cleaner enters the room.  

 

"No, I insist.  The inch of carpet in front of the speakers does not need to be vacuumed.  It will be just fine.  Please."

[Peter P.]

I think what the OP experienced in the garage of his friend was a different listening environment that his 15 x 25 room. The Fortes likely overwhelmed the room vs. the garage, or at least the bass pressurized it differently.

 

I can't vouch for the difference in sound between original Heresies and later versions, but it's clear that bigger (the Fortes) is not always better and the room's acoustics MATTER.

 

Interesting discussion by the way, and I'm glad the OP found a Heritage speaker he likes!

[Flevoman]

3 hours ago, Islander said:

 

Yes, the veneer.  The Lacquered Walnut is very delicate and easily scratched.  Even resting your hand on the speakers while wearing a watch with a stainless steel bracelet can cause scratches if you move your hand around.  So many sharp corners on those bracelets.  However, when I called Klipsch Customer Service about how to repair some scratch marks on my old black-painted plywood La Scalas, I was told to use a Magic Marker, a felt pen with permanent ink.  I used it and it did make the scratch less noticeable, but I certainly wouldn't use anything like that on the lacquered LS2s.  I have some old Audio Logic speakers, a local brand from Toronto in the '80s.  They're covered in oiled walnut veneer.  The oiled walnut is certainly more scratch resistant, and you can put things on top of the speaker without making dents in the finish, like you get with lacquer.  The helpful guy at Klipsch CS told me that lacquer never really hardens, which is why the feet of anything that's placed on them, even the peel-and-stick rubber or plastic feet of anything that weighs more than a few ounces/50 grams (rounding off, wise guys), can leave little dents in the finish.

 

Sure, oiled walnut (or cherry, or oak) finishes need to be oiled periodically, and La Scalas or Khorns are really big speakers, so it will take more than five minutes to apply all that oil, but maybe that's really not too much of a tradeoff for a more durable finish that won't make you nervous whenever a vacuum cleaner enters the room.  "No, I insist.  The inch of carpet in front of the speakers does not need to be vacuumed.  It will be just fine.  Please."

I own the CW4 in Walnut veneer and the Lascala AL5 in Cherry. I'm not sure if they use the same types of finishes as your Lascala II, but I found that the best way to remove scratches is to use regular natural maintenance oil for wooden furniture. I was able to purchase the Lascala at a greatly reduced price due to the numerous highly visible and large scratches. I even used parquet oil, and everything is completely gone. There are still some grooves on the surface where the lacquer/veneer was pressed in, but in terms of color and appearance, all the scratches are completely gone. Perhaps this trick can help you out. 

[Invidiosulus]

Heresy 1’s are pretty great other than the 1/2” back panel which can muddy the mid bass frequencies a bit.

 

I’ve had mine since 2003 and listen to them almost daily in my office.

 

 

 

 

[Marvel]

I could always appreciate newer Klipsch but I have to wait until they aren't THE newest.

[Mark Swearengin]

On 7/17/2023 at 8:46 PM, Peter P. said:

I think what the OP experienced in the garage of his friend was a different listening environment that his 15 x 25 room. The Fortes likely overwhelmed the room vs. the garage, or at least the bass pressurized it differently.

 

I can't vouch for the difference in sound between original Heresies and later versions, but it's clear that bigger (the Fortes) is not always better and the room's acoustics MATTER.

 

Interesting discussion by the way, and I'm glad the OP found a Heritage speaker he likes!

I'm about to take it one step further as I purchased a set of Cornwalls last week.  Geez, 3 pairs of Klipsch speakers in a month!  Could it be an addiction?   Like my Heresys, the CW's were in a storage unit and I could not say NO to $900!  I suspect some of this may lead to a second system in my much larger office.  I have the gear, so why not? 

[Mark Swearengin]

On 7/17/2023 at 11:58 PM, Invidiosulus said:

Heresy 1’s are pretty great other than the 1/2” back panel which can muddy the mid bass frequencies a bit.

 

I’ve had mine since 2003 and listen to them almost daily in my office.

 

 

 

 

Did you replace the back panel with something thicker like 3/4" plywood?  Seems like that would be an easy fix!  I going to replace the spring loaded clips with better banana plugs soon and might just do that.

[Marvel]

He did...