Where are the "new" Jubilees?

[mikebse2a3]

1 hour ago, babadono said:

Thank you @mikebse2a3 for making this happen...you are NOT crazy

 

Thanks my friend for the kind words..!!!

Maybe “NOT crazy” but more of an enabler and it’s important to remember an enabler has the effect of not making someone else feel crazy…. 😄

 

The “Underground Jubilee” and Heritage Jubilee have such wonderful stories, history, and people that have surrounded and supported them that make them very special in so many ways.

 

 

miketn

[babadono]

Crazy? I think I was just using Chief's words

[Bacek]

Will write something on Monday.

Today I will listen only.

 

 

[Marvel]

That pair looks really, really nice!

[Flevoman]

@Bacek What are your current speakers? I'm curious about what you can reference.

[Bacek]

At home I'm using La Scala 1 and today I also was able to listen to new KHorns.

 

 

But unfortunately I will write nothing about how Jubilee sounds. That would not be fair and I'll give reasons for that.

 

1. AVS exhibit is organized in 3 different locations.

That one where Jubilees where located (Radisson hotel) is known for massacring bass performance and have really intensive background noise from other rooms.

2. Tube amplifiers used for top part where humming a lot.

3. People running presentation where using bass and treble level knobs like mad men.

 

From what I understood Jubilees where borrowed for this presentation so I assume that guys where not especially skillful on setting them properly.

 So to sum up I can only say I saw them and they look great but If I heard them is disputable.

 

On the other hand KHorns in other location sounded great despite the electronics was I would say basic and room as you see was not really prepared for listening.

 

On bright side I know what dealer will have them in Poland and maybe I'll be able to listen them in near future in more controlled environment.

 

 

[MMurg]

On 10/29/2023 at 10:42 AM, Bacek said:

But unfortunately I will write nothing about how Jubilee sounds. That would not be fair and I'll give reasons for that.

 

1. AVS exhibit is organized in 3 different locations.

That one where Jubilees where located (Radisson hotel) is known for massacring bass performance and have really intensive background noise from other rooms.

2. Tube amplifiers used for top part where humming a lot.

3. People running presentation where using bass and treble level knobs like mad men.

 

From what I understood Jubilees where borrowed for this presentation so I assume that guys where not especially skillful on setting them properly.

 So to sum up I can only say I saw them and they look great but If I heard them is disputable.

 

On the other hand KHorns in other location sounded great despite the electronics was I would say basic and room as you see was not really prepared for listening.

 

On bright side I know what dealer will have them in Poland and maybe I'll be able to listen them in near future in more controlled environment.

 

 

 

After looking at the Jubilee setup in the picture and your comments about them fiddling with the DSP bass/treble gain controls, I'm fairly confident in saying that you probably did not hear Jubilee as they should sound.  Unfortunately, I think some of the blame rests with Klipsch for not providing adequate detailed guidance for properly setting the Jubilee up.  The manual is definitely inadequate for the task.  After having them in my relatively small living room for a year and a half now, I have some of my own "lessons learned" that I'm hoping will make it into a future version of the manual or at least a Klipsch blog post linked to the product page.

 

The first is to have speakers positioned such that main listening position is as close to on-axis of the K-402 horn as is practical, both horizontally (i.e., via proper toe in) and vertically (i.e., tilt the horn down as necessary).  The manual gets the toe in part mostly correct but does not mention anything about possibly tilting the horn down when needed.

 

Next is getting the in-room bass response correct.  This is where Klipsch really needs to provide guidance as what I'm about to say I only know because of my own experience or from information that came directly from @Chief bonehead.  Unlike the Klipschorn or the Underground Jubilee, the new Jubilee does not need to be near a corner for full bass response.  Roy has said on this forum that the Heritage Jubilee is designed to curve flat in half-space (on the floor away from the room walls).  This is not mentioned in the manual.  So, once the new Jubilee are placed near walls or corners (as they will likely be in most normal-sized rooms), there will be room gain that will cause a departure from flat response.  They can start to sound boomy.  In my room most of this gain was in the very low end (20 - 30 Hz range), so it wasn't apparent when listening to a lot of pop/rock material.  However, once I put on material that had significant content in that range (e.g., certain orchestral music), things became unlistenable.  This cannot be corrected with the gain knobs on the DSP as that's not what they are for.  Some other form of bass room correction is needed to fix this.  Unfortunately, the Jubilee DSP cannot be used for this as the end user cannot modify the settings.  I feel that this is a mistake on Klipsch's part.  They should open up the DSP for those who know what they are doing.  This forces the user to use an additional level of processing for bass correction, either automatic room correction systems like Audyssey, Dirac, etc. or manually with another DSP or parametric EQ.  Luckily, my processor has a multichannel parametric EQ built-in that is compatible with REW.  So, at least I didn't need any other external gear to do this correction manually in my room.

 

I have a feeling that the people running the demo at that show weren't aware of any of this.  Therefore, they were constantly fiddling with the bass in the hope of getting it right and failing.

[Flevoman]

8 hours ago, MMurg said:

 

After looking at the Jubilee setup in the picture and your comments about them fiddling with the DSP bass/treble gain controls, I'm fairly confident in saying that you probably did not hear Jubilee as they should sound.  Unfortunately, I think some of the blame rests with Klipsch for not providing adequate detailed guidance for properly setting the Jubilee up.  The manual is definitely inadequate for the task.  After having them in my relatively small living room for a year and a half now, I have some of my own "lessons learned" that I'm hoping will make it into a future version of the manual or at least a Klipsch blog post linked to the product page.

 

The first is to have speakers positioned such that main listening position is as close to on-axis of the K-402 horn as is practical, both horizontally (i.e., via proper toe in) and vertically (i.e., tilt the horn down as necessary).  The manual gets the toe in part mostly correct but does not mention anything about possibly tilting the horn down when needed.

 

Next is getting the in-room bass response correct.  This is where Klipsch really needs to provide guidance as what I'm about to say I only know because of my own experience or from information that came directly from @Chief bonehead.  Unlike the Klipschorn or the Underground Jubilee, the new Jubilee does not need to be near a corner for full bass response.  Roy has said on this forum that the Heritage Jubilee is designed to curve flat in half-space (on the floor away from the room walls).  This is not mentioned in the manual.  So, once the new Jubilee are placed near walls or corners (as they will likely be in most normal-sized rooms), there will be room gain that will cause a departure from flat response.  They can start to sound boomy.  In my room most of this gain was in the very low end (20 - 30 Hz range), so it wasn't apparent when listening to a lot of pop/rock material.  However, once I put on material that had significant content in that range (e.g., certain orchestral music), things became unlistenable.  This cannot be corrected with the gain knobs on the DSP as that's not what they are for.  Some other form of bass room correction is needed to fix this.  Unfortunately, the Jubilee DSP cannot be used for this as the end user cannot modify the settings.  I feel that this is a mistake on Klipsch's part.  They should open up the DSP for those who know what they are doing.  This forces the user to use an additional level of processing for bass correction, either automatic room correction systems like Audyssey, Dirac, etc. or manually with another DSP or parametric EQ.  Luckily, my processor has a multichannel parametric EQ built-in that is compatible with REW.  So, at least I didn't need any other external gear to do this correction manually in my room.

 

I have a feeling that the people running the demo at that show weren't aware of any of this.  Therefore, they were constantly fiddling with the bass in the hope of getting it right and failing.

 

If I may ask, how big is your room? 

[Bacek]

11 hours ago, MMurg said:

After looking at the Jubilee setup in the picture and your comments about them fiddling with the DSP bass/treble gain

I was coming back to that room multiple times during the day. This is setting form one point in time, and HF gain during the day was at some points higher or lower. Soundstage and dynamics where great but on the rest I could clearly hear too extensive correction.

[Flevoman]

I think I'll request a listening session at my hi-fi store after all. It's only a 10-minute drive, and I can listen to the Jubilee speakers they have set up there. I briefly listened to them for about 5 minutes once, but I was also busy with another purchase, so I didn't pay much attention to it. My initial impression was that the sound seemed less impressive or grand than I had expected (with such massive speakers, you expect to be blown away). However, what I heard sounded incredibly airy and realistic.

[KT88]

@BacekThank you for your responsible report. I think that one has to guard a Jubilee better so that no mistakes happen during such a important presentation. Too unfortunate if there is bad press just because of sloppiness.

[Bacek]

1 hour ago, Flevoman said:

I think I'll request a listening session at my hi-fi store after all.

Sure that is a good idea especially if they are close. Exhibitions like that are not best places for critical listening sessions.

And for systems where you have possibilities for adjustments on one hand that is great tool on the other hand it gives you possibility to "break" something really bad. For KHorns you cannot adjust anything and they were great with deep, firm, snapy bass. And Jubilees even on youtube sessions, trough some random microphone and headphones, they sound interesting so I assume properly set up they should be great.

 

I guess great power comes with great responsibility.

[Flevoman]

1 hour ago, Bacek said:

I guess great power comes with great responsibility

😂😂

[Dave MacKay]

Twice I went to an audio store to hear the Jubilees. Both times, my experience was similar to what was described here.

 

The salesman was madly twisting the tone controls to show them off. It was almost as if Klipsch had just invented tone controls! Needless to say, the listening experience fell short of my expectations for the Jubilee.

 

I don’t know what training Klipsch is providing their Heritage dealers re: the Jubilee, but based on a few reports it isn’t adequate. Too bad. The speakers deserve to be demo’ed well so that potential customers can judge them fairly. And customers who might be spending a whack of money deserve better.

[MMurg]

9 hours ago, Flevoman said:

If I may ask, how big is your room? 

13 ft x 17 ft x 8 ft

 

1 hour ago, Dave MacKay said:

The salesman was madly twisting the tone controls to show them off. It was almost as if Klipsch had just invented tone controls!

The knobs on the DSP are NOT tone controls.  They are gain controls to match the gain when different amplifiers are used for HF and LF.  Since these speakers require biamping, gain controls are provided in case one wanted to use two different amplifiers, for example, a tube amp for the HF and a solid-state amp for the LF.

[MMurg]

6 hours ago, Bacek said:

I was coming back to that room multiple times during the day. This is setting form one point in time, and HF gain during the day was at some points higher or lower. Soundstage and dynamics where great but on the rest I could clearly hear too extensive correction.

 

This would not necessarily be incorrect if they were using different amplifiers with different gains on the HF and LF.  However, that doesn't seem to be how they were using these knobs.

[OilyBoy]

7 hours ago, Flevoman said:

I think I'll request a listening session at my hi-fi store after all. It's only a 10-minute drive, and I can listen to the Jubilee speakers they have set up there. I briefly listened to them for about 5 minutes once, but I was also busy with another purchase, so I didn't pay much attention to it. My initial impression was that the sound seemed less impressive or grand than I had expected (with such massive speakers, you expect to be blown away). However, what I heard sounded incredibly airy and realistic.

You know i have a pair of UG in the netherlands? if you want to compare one day just send me a message. (even in het Engels voordat ze denken dat we codetaal spreken)

[Bacek]

1 hour ago, MMurg said:

They are gain controls to match the gain when different amplifiers are used for HF and LF.

 

Ok so my mistake I have assumed that HF means HF and not everything above the lows.

So I would say they are not needed as basically any amp (even power amps) have attenuator knob and you can just attenuate "louder" one.

[MMurg]

13 minutes ago, Bacek said:

 

Ok so my mistake I have assumed that HF means HF and not everything above the lows.

So I would say they are not needed as basically any amp (even power amps) have attenuator knob and you can just attenuate "louder" one.

 

They are definitely needed for using different amps for HF and LF as many power amps do not have gain controls.  All the power amps I own, including the ones I'm using with the Jubilee, do not have any gain control.  I personally don't need them because I'm using identical amps for HF and LF, but not everyone will.  Unfortunately, the Jubilee manual does not mention this either.

[Bacek]

Do we know if this gain is controlled in analog or digital domain?