Overall Klipsch Sound

[delta88343]

For all the Klipsch Heritage Speaker owners out there, in order to truly hear the full potential of the real Klipsch sound, you MUST dampen the rear wall in your listening room that your speakers are aimed at.

 

This can be done with 2×4 panels (any size) of Rockwool which is a great sound dampened material by design, or real sound absorbing panels from Sonex or the like.

 

Even in Paul's original Dope From Hope notes he mentioned the room should be well damped. This is due to the dispersion characteristics and pattern of the horns.

 

Most rooms are 90% bare surface, and with sound traveling at 1030 feet per second, if your room is 15 feet deep from your speakers to the rear wall, the sound will bounce between the rear and front wall 7 times per second which will accentuate the high end which cannot be conquered or reduced even with an equalizer.

 

Those mid and higher frequencies MUST be ABSORBED to eliminate the sound continually reflecting and bouncing between the rear and front wall, building every second which produces a very BRIGHT sound that cannot be tamed with an eq.

 

Once you dampen the rear wall, you will transform your speakers and hear that butter smooth and live sound Klipsch speakers are capable of producing.

 

Everything you have ever heard about Klipsch Heritage speakers sounding bright is due to them being in a "live" room and not a well damped room acoustically or the back wall at least. It is not the speakers.

 

Trust me, you will transform the sound of your system to that A rated butter smooth midrange and high range sound only Klipsch heritage speakers are capable of producing.

 

Unfortunately however, Klipsch Heritage speakers are more sensitive to this room effect than dome radiators with a wider dispersion patten.

 

Once you do this you will not believe the sonic transformation of your Klipsch speakers. They will give you that dynamic and incredible live sound WITHOUT sounding harsh.

 

Do it!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 25, 2023 by delta88343
Error

[wuzzzer]

I put up thick blackout curtains behind me in my basement theater.  It made a huge difference in improving the overall sound.

 

That said, I’m curious why so many random topics like this are being posted in this section that is designated for discussing personal music systems like Bluetooth speakers.

[delta88343]

I guess I erred in its topic placement.

[Islander]

General Klipsch Info or 2-Channel Home Audio or maybe Architectural would be more suitable locations.  Or maybe Home Theater...

 

Maybe I'm not the best person to ask...

 

Anyway, welcome to the Forum!  Or as some others say, Welcome to the Madness!

[Islander]

A bookcase is also a good thing to have on the back wall of your listening room, although it works as a diffuser as much as an absorber.  Mine's 6' tall by 4' wide, which will have a definite effect.

 

Actually, since my system's evolved as far as I want to take it, the next step is room treatment, but rather than install sound absorbing panels at random locations, I'm considering bringing in a consultant.  However, as you put the idea, it makes sense.  It won't get done for a while, though, since the Must Get Done list is still too long.

[Schu]

How does the specific Heritage dispersion pattern require room treatment?

Are you speaking of the 'directionality'? If so, that is  not inherently, or specific, to klipsch.

 

[delta88343]

Different horn design have different dispersion characteristics. I believe the exponential design PK used has controlled directives which causes beaming. This beaming effect can significantly increase the amplitudes of various frequencies which can cause a harsh sound in what are considered bright rooms. Remember, speakers are tested in an anechoic chamber that absorbs ALL frequencies and it is in that environment that a speaker produces its fattest frequency response. Now stick that same speaker in a room with large areas of hard surfaces and the sound, especially the mid to higher midrange frequencies are going to continuously reflect and bounce around the room like an echo chamber. This is why a room needs sound absorbing materials, if you're unhappy with the higher frequency sounds.

[delta88343]

I have tested this effect by measuring these characteristics with a calibrated microphone placed in a portable anechoic chamber I built vs free standing in the room. If memory serves, I recorded via frequency graph plots I generated an increase of around +4db in the higher mid frequencies between 1k and 4-5k. A +4db response is quite dramatic. Lowering those frequencies via an equalizer still didn't fix the issue because those frequencies are still bouncing around the room at the rate of 7 times every second until the amplitude decays. Putting up the rockwool panels I built transformed my klipschorns into the SMOOTH (no brightness) sounding speaker I fell in love with 40 years prior when once again they were in a well damped room. 

 

Just stand in the middle of your listening room and clap your hands. If you can hear the echo and subsequent decay of the clap you have a bad room, sonically. The louder you play your music the worse it gets and destroys imaging, and klipsch heritage speakers can generate some damn good horizontal imaging and depth.

[delta88343]

Islander:

 

You wouldn't be placing sound absorbing material randomly, the most important place to put it is on the wall in which your speakers are pointing. 

 

I just ordered 64 sq ft of hopefully real sound absorbing foam from TEMU for just $17. Far and away lower that what sonex costs. Hopefully it's real sonex like sound absorbing foam and just not foam which is near useless. If not, I'll return it and nothing is lost. If it real, it's a major steal and I'll buy more. This is 2" thick foam.

 

I'm a single guy so I don't have to worry about my wife bitching at me that it doesn't look nice. It looks just fine. I have a very nice looking AV room with a 16ft screen for watching movies from my LED DVD player in-between my K Horns. Concert videos are simply just LIVE. Regular movies, just as good or better than a movie theater.

[billybob]

Welcome! Yes, the pms forum not ideal yet, your message getting to most.

Enjoy your setup, and maybe some music too.

[Islander]

11 hours ago, delta88343 said:

Islander:

 

You wouldn't be placing sound absorbing material randomly, the most important place to put it is on the wall in which your speakers are pointing. 

 

I just ordered 64 sq ft of hopefully real sound absorbing foam from TEMU for just $17. Far and away lower that what sonex costs. Hopefully it's real sonex like sound absorbing foam and just not foam which is near useless. If not, I'll return it and nothing is lost. If it real, it's a major steal and I'll buy more. This is 2" thick foam.

 

I'm a single guy so I don't have to worry about my wife bitching at me that it doesn't look nice. It looks just fine. I have a very nice looking AV room with a 16ft screen for watching movies from my LED DVD player in-between my K Horns. Concert videos are simply just LIVE. Regular movies, just as good or better than a movie theater.

 

16 ft?  Wow!  Yes, that must be amazing.  I have a 65" Panasonic plasma TV, which has a great picture, but sitting abut 12 feet back from it is like sitting at the back row of a big-screen movie house room.  I'm single, too, but no women visitors have grumbled about the JubScala IIs, which are the usual washing machine size, plus the big K402 tweeter horns on top don't always register as speakers.  More than one visitor has thought that they're inactive TV monitors, and that I have a 3-screen array, since the 402s are almost exactly the same height and width as 40" flat screen TVs.

 

Anyway, the least expensive sound absorbers I've heard of were a DIY arrangement of folded thick towels, that are painted and then framed.  You can paint them to match the wall or contrast with it, and of course the thicker the better.  That might work better in smaller rooms, though.

 

As for dispersion pattern, the 402s are very directional, since they're a modified Tractrix design, so that from just outside the room, they're not loud, but when you get in front of them, they're much louder.  This greatly reduces early side wall reflections, so that's good, but the back wall is still there, with some stuff in front, but a fair area of bare wall.  In the New year, I'll be looking into something.  Just what, I'm not sure yet.

 

Let us know what TEMU is like to deal with.  I've seen some flame-fired teacups from them that look really good, but ordering from some online-only firms can be chancy.

 

[babadono]

What about the first reflection point? Stop that first bounce.

[babadono]

and don't forget the floor and CEILING.

[babadono]

BTW most 'experts' recommend diffusion on the rear wall as opposed to absorption.

[Schu]

12 hours ago, delta88343 said:

Different horn design have different dispersion characteristics. I believe the exponential design PK used has controlled directives which causes beaming. This beaming effect can significantly increase the amplitudes of various frequencies which can cause a harsh sound in what are considered bright rooms. Remember, speakers are tested in an anechoic chamber that absorbs ALL frequencies and it is in that environment that a speaker produces its fattest frequency response. Now stick that same speaker in a room with large areas of hard surfaces and the sound, especially the mid to higher midrange frequencies are going to continuously reflect and bounce around the room like an echo chamber. This is why a room needs sound absorbing materials, if you're unhappy with the higher frequency sounds.

I mean, I wish I was learning something here, but I just am not... and I don't think most of the long timers around here with more than a couple thousand posts aren't either... but your effort is appreciated.

[delta88343]

Babadono,

 

imo absorption is always better than diffusion. Now for lower frequencies you want diffusion because it's too difficult to absorb.

 

In regards to floor and ceiling, I have wall to wall carpeting for the abortion on the floor, and ceiling I'm not worried about due to limited vertical dispersion and with the rockwool panels on the rear wall there is no such thing as secondary reflections.

 

On my sidewalls I have nice looking area rugs hung on the wall so it addresses both astetics and sonic functionality. There is of course a single early reflection from the front wall which is my movie screen, but not at high frequencies which is the issue. Nothing escapes the absobtion properties of the Rockwool except the much lower frequencies. 

 

I've used TEMU a number of times and have never had an issue. It's basically products straight from China without the multiple middle men so items are dirt cheap, like half the price and more for the same item on amazon.

 

I'm not hear to preach, just wanted to express how one can transform the sound of heritage or other speakers with sound absorption. It's a major effect of a speakers sound yet goes unaddressed 99% of the time. The room is 90% of what you hear from a LOUDspeaker, especially one with some directionality.

[SWL]

A few years ago I experimented with both absorption and diffusion in my main listening room. With absorption at the side reflections and directly behind the speakers at mid/tweet level.....and diffusion throughout the room the results were eye (ear) opening. Bass traps not so much but still worthwhile. 

 

Most notable was how much more focused the soundstage became. The center image in particular. Absolutely worth doing.

[SWL]

On 12/24/2023 at 8:52 PM, wuzzzer said:

I put up thick blackout curtains behind me in my basement theater.  It made a huge difference in improving the overall 

I did the same and totally agree. It's a must.

[Travis In Austin]

Moved here to get in more appropriate place for more visibility.

[Deang]

On 12/24/2023 at 8:51 PM, delta88343 said:

Unfortunately however, Klipsch Heritage speakers are more sensitive to this room effect than dome radiators with a wider dispersion patten.

You have it backwards. 
 

Horns have controlled directivity. 
 

I think they’re brighter because that’s how they’re voiced. Live music doesn’t sound “buttery smooth”, in fact, most live music is fairly bright and a little harsh (a little).