DAC Question

[Jeff Matthews]

I am getting an Onkyo M-504 with matching preamp.  I plan on connecting my laptop with a microphone to RCA cable (unless I should do it differently).

 

I was advised an inexpensive DAC will make a noticeable difference.  I was told:

 

An American company makes a 99.00 dac and I read it's damn good. It's the Schiit modi 3e. 

 

Can anyone confirm?

 

[Seadog]

I have the Schiit Modi+ which I think runs about $150.  It is not bad.

 

However, you might want to look at the S.M.S.L SU-1.  I have one and it sounds very good for an entry level DAC, and it is only $80.  It also supports DSD512 and MQA (Schiit does not support DSD or MQA).

[Jeff Matthews]

While we're at it, I have never used one.  What kinds of cables and other accessories will I need?

 

How do you connect it?  Is it between laptop and preamp, or a different order?

[Seadog]

A source (CD player, DVD, Blu Ray, Computer, etc.) digital output connects to the DAC via USB, Coax, or Optical cable (most DACs support all three digital input types).  The DAC outputs to a preamp input via RCA cables (some have balanced outputs, but the Schiit Modi and the SMSL SU-1 have standard RCA outputs, right and left channels).

 

Also, both of those are powered from a standard 5V phone charger to a USB-C port on the DAC.

[Jeff Matthews]

Perfect!  Thanks!

[capo72]

USB from your lap to DAC. Just make sure to change your laptop sound settings to output the max sample rate and bit depth of the DAC that you decide on. (ex. 24 bit, 192kHZ). Nice to see some old heads posting!

[geezin']

I used my '09 iMac optical output into my Fisher 440T via a Schiit Modi3+. Significant difference. By a surprising amount to me.

[The Dude]

I use that same DAC, yes it's good, hard to beet U.S. made build quality and sound at that price.

[Schu]

14 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I plan on...

 

I was advised an inexpensive DAC will make a noticeable difference.  I was told:

 

An American company makes a 99.00 dac and I read it's damn good.

 

 

Define 'Damn Good'?

[Schu]

If you're looking for a low end DAC that outperforms... take a look at the Gashelli Labs AKM4499 DAC's.

the AKM4499 chipset is magical...

[billybob]

14 hours ago, Jeff Matthews said:

I am getting an Onkyo M-504 with matching preamp.  I plan on connecting my laptop with a microphone to RCA cable (unless I should do it differently).

 

I was advised an inexpensive DAC will make a noticeable difference.  I was told:

 

An American company makes a 99.00 dac and I read it's damn good. It's the Schiit modi 3e. 

 

Can anyone confirm?

 

Cannot confirm the DAC but would first setup the Onkyo and give a listen.

Generally agree about DACs can improve the sound quality, especially with Youtube. Even an inexpensive one.

Edited March 14, 2024 by billybob

[backlog]

Everything practically has a DAC these days.  The informative bit I got from Apple was that their own devices (at the time) didn’t sample high enough for their high res content they started serving. 
 

However the specs for iPhone 15 Pro Max are as follows, and because they reference Lossless I’m going to expect they mean what they say:

 

Audio Playback

• Supported formats include AAC, MP3, Apple Lossless, FLAC, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital Plus, and Dolby Atmos
• Spatial Audio playback
• User‑configurable maximum volume limit

still you can try some dongles and see if they help your ears.  https://www.engadget.com/the-best-dac-for-lossless-high-resolution-music-iphone-android-160056147.html

[Mikekid]

I thought about either the Schitt Modi and the Gashelli Labs ones.. Several months ago, I thought i'd pick one up to use between an Oppo bdp 103d and an incoming tube amp. I have not yet because the Oppo's dac is known to be a good one, but not quite as nice as inside the 'audiophile' (105 Oppo, etc) models. Sure sounds great as is, but was wondering if it would be even noticeably better with one of those mentioned?  ~Mike

[backlog]

I just use Apple TV 4K to send digital to Yamaha AVR, because I need Atmos, so a 2 channel dac in the middle just wouldn’t cut it.  If I split audio off from TV it’s my understanding that the bitrate is lower on optical audio than on hdmi 8K, and coax audio is faster than optical but it doesn’t have multichannel.  But who knows!  Not me!

 

However I did cancel my Apple subscription for a bit and used YouTube and Spotify free, and when I resubscribed I could totally tell a huge difference in the sound in the car and at home for both music and movies.  So there’s that.  Sometimes ya gotta break up to know what you had!

[geezin']

Currently the Modi3+ is used with my WiiM mini/Schiit Saga S/Topping PA3s/H1/KG SW. It sounds great. I had first tried the Topping with the H1 through a Logitech Bluetooth adapter using my phone. Sounded like a 1960s transistor radio. Couldn't stand it and the Topping moved to the bedroom. Got bored awhile ago and brought it out and inserted where the receiver was w/o the Logitech doodad. Viola good clean detailed sounds I enjoyed. Moved the Fisher to the bedroom and left the Topping in the main used (cranked all the way)as a power amp after the Schiit pre.

[Seadog]

On 3/14/2024 at 11:15 AM, Schu said:

If you're looking for a low end DAC that outperforms... take a look at the Gashelli Labs AKM4499 DAC's.

the AKM4499 chipset is magical...

I think the standard chip is the AK4493 for the $259 version.  The AK4499 is a $169 upcharge per the Gashelli website.  The SMSL SU-1 with the AK4493 is now on Amazon for $67.99.  A cheap way to make a huge upgrade in sound using a laptop.

[Bubba_Buoy]

I like the Schiit Modi, but any DAC with the AK__ chip would be my preference.  I have a headphone amp with one in it, and it is light years better than my computer sound card, and I liked it better than Modi too, though the gap was narrower.  The AK is awesome.

[Schu]

2 hours ago, Seadog said:

I think the standard chip is the AK4493 for the $259 version.  The AK4499 is a $169 upcharge per the Gashelli website.  The SMSL SU-1 with the AK4493 is now on Amazon for $67.99.  A cheap way to make a huge upgrade in sound using a laptop.

the chip is the basis for a DAC system... implementation and circuit design matters...

[SWL]

An inexpensive entry-level DAC will make a difference. Get ready because your head will be spinning from all the opinions surrounding the use of an outboard DAC and what brand you use.

 

I have several Schiit DACs. I like em.....they have a nice house sound to them in my systems. 

 

I have several Topping DACs. I think they suck in my systems. They have zero warmth to them and there's that LOL. 

[Dan Masters]

I learned from personal experience that the biggest distorter in the laptop setup is the preamp stage.  I never believed preamp mattered...mainly just a rheostat, right?  Wrong!  When I eventually sent DAC output to a quality preamp, the improvement was super noticeable.  Without bringing the change to their attention, three friends with good ears each said something like "Wow, what did you do to improve your system?"

 

Imaging is one thing that improved.  This suggests decreased noise and other types of distortion. The more identical the vocalist's voice is from both channels, the less you detect the location of the speakers and the more it seems the singer is standing in front of you.  From that perspective, the preamp made a huge difference.  

 

When your entire preamp is on a chip, there is inherent and inescapable noise and other distortion introduced into the circuit.  

 

I was told by a reputable sound engineer that a secret source of accuracy in the old amps and preamps is discrete components (i.e. resistors, capacitors, transistors, etc.).  The preamp/AV Receiver I bought is the Aragon Soundstage, which has a $2000 preamp built in.  (I scooped up a used version super cheap!!).  I opened it up and was amazed to discover that the preamp stage was on a large card with about 100 discrete components soldered in!!

Edited March 19, 2024 by Dan Masters
Clarified that "noise" (random fluctuations in signal) is the source of imaging loss.