hwatkins Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 ---------------- On 1/6/2004 12:27:35 PM bclarke421 wrote: Ok, got through most of pg. 5, and decided not to bother. Sorry for intruding. Enjoy pissing on each other for one another's beliefs. At least when we fight about amp topologies, one of us can learn something along the way. ---------------- Well said, except it does appear that we have more 'violent' conversations about amp topologies - it must be really tough explaining Americans to much of the rest of the world... I too am weary so will head off to learn more about tubes (yes Fini - the electronic filled ones) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 A Glock 17 is all you need Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
syclone385 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 WOW!!! What an interesting thread! 99% of the time I am logged on as an anonomyous user and rarely post anything, instead I sit back and marvel at the intellect and humor of this community. How or why so many of you have chosen Klipsch forums to discuss such things should probably be it's own thread. Tools? yes. Efficient tool. 737 loaded with fuel. Tool right? To transport humans from point A to point B right? Much more effective than a rock! As long as there is evil in this world ready to do me and mine harm I will stand ready! Self defense is a right. Preemption is self defense. If I said I wanted to kill your father and had the means and motive to do so, would you preempt me? I am certain MOST Americans on this sight would. GW is just as American as any of us. Where does all this end? If necessary see my tag line. Note to Albright, Downtown Chattanooga can be down right rough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 "And this applies to sport as well. I'm sure they have all manner of special names for guns and shooting activities" I take this as you are really not that familiar with firearms in any manner. Naw, dont like bowling. And I have never kidded myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 "I could catch your arrows on my scutom" Yea but you'd be a eunich. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Damn Mark, those last few posts are a pretty depressing assessment of the Human Race and Americans in general. However, your evaluation of our culture and what we "export" is dead on, uh, I mean right on. Many Americans, including myself would agree with you here. I personally lay responsibility for much of the violence on the entertainment industry. Weak minded people typically act out what they digest, and children are the most influenced by it. Of course, with the steady diet of Martial Arts movies the Asians expose themselves to, it does beg the question doesn't it? Seems they would be hacking each other up on a regular basis. On the other thing, the great majority Scripture is devoted to teaching how to live a peaceful life in this whacked out world. Being received by The Creator is the reward for toughing it out. If you don't do the work, you don't get the prize. As far as war goes -- it sucks. It's never a "good" thing, but it does seem there are time times when it's necessary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 For starters, I could see that 6 wild young men with 2 pickup trucks, 10 shotguns and 5 cases of beer was a surefire recipe for disaster. Then I, or one of them, would have to become the "victim" of something and the whole process of "victim and circumstance" would begin. Agreed, but then I believe it becomes a matter of upbringing. For instance, I was brought up around guns, my Great Grand Father on my fathers side lived in Canada after coming from the old country and firearms put food on the table (hence the tool). His son moved to Idaho, Washington and eventually to California and firearms more often than not put food on his table. My father hunted with his father and so on as I do with my son. As I was growing up all of my dads (and my) firearms were stored under my bed in my room. It never dawned on me to play with them as toys as it seems I always knew what they were. My teen years were cut-off by Vietnam, 2 pickup trucks, 10 shotguns and 5 cases of beer were not in my immediate future and as I mentioned earlier, I always knew what guns really were and it would have never dawned on me to mix guns with alcohol (alcohol and football games are another issue). As a side note my Grand Father on my mothers side came through Ellis Island and shopped to put food on the table so it is fairly easy to see were you are coming from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 What the hell is a "scutom"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny dB Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Similar to a scrotum, but smaller. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clipped and Shorn Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Gotta Have Faith: "Last spring Tom DeLay, soon to be House majority leader, told a church group that: "Only Christianity offers a way to live in response to the realities that we find in this world -- only Christianity." He also said he was on a mission from God to promote a "biblical worldview" in American politics. By the way, one piece of that biblical worldview involves scientific education. After the Columbine school shootings, Mr. DeLay suggested that the tragedy had occurred "because our school systems teach our children that they are nothing but glorified apes who have evolutionized out of some primordial mud." Guns don't kill people; Charles Darwin kills people." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKuziel Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I have tried to stay out of this one. I am a licensed NRA pistol insructor and have several conceiled carry permits for various states including my own state of Connecticut. My daughters have grown up around my firearms, BOTH ages 13 and 9 know how to shoot and safely handle a firearm. They also have their own .22 rifles. BUT they only handle them when I am around to supervise them, They are all trigger locked and all ammunition is stored seperately from the firearms themselves. When my oldest was arounf 7 or 8 I took her to the range and showed her first hand what a firearm was and what it could do. I took a 12 gauge shotgun and a pumpkin ans proceeded to make that pumpkin explode! She got the point of what a firearm could do to herself or another. I believe if you satisfy their curiosity then it is much safer. Do I hunt? Hell yes I hunt. I hunt deer, and turkey here in Connecticut. I don't know about anyone elses state but the deer population in CT is enormous! Many accidents every year between automobiles and deer. Do I carry a firearm on my person? Yes I do. You know contrary to popular belief it is NOT the job of the Police to protect you. Just try to sue the Police for failing to protect you from a home invasion or auto theft or a mugging. It is YOUR responsibilty to protect yourself. Police just enforce the laws, they can not be responsible for the breaking of those laws. Oh well, flame away Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Well thank you everyone who replied to me directly - I am quite touched. There were a lot of good points raised by many of you - I wish I had bothered to keep notes, but I kind of lost track at the arrow deflecting scrotum's you are now equiping yourselves with... Just to further confuse things Americans are not, actually, the most highly armed nation I have visited - that prize goes to Israel. Whilst Americans are armed, in the main with handguns, every single Israeli has (or at least had in 1980 and in 86 - when I was last there and asked) either an assault rifle or an Uzi sub-machine gun. Ignoring their problems with terrorism, Intifada and so on their actual crime rate is (or again was - it may have changed) rather low. Arned robbery and the like especially so. Whilst I dont think I could ever bring myself to agree that armed citizens is ever a good idea I would say that it is the combination of armaments with other factors that come to the fore in the USA. Gang wars, drugs, drug wars, organised crime, urban decay are all contributing factors (along with many others doubtless) possibly in excess of guns to the voilence perceived in american culture. I think blaming the violence on Hollywood is a bit strong. It is more a case of Hollywood violence reflecting society's percetion of itself. Even in Europe we can distinguish between Hollywood and reality (although it does get confusing somethimes when you elect Terminators...er...I mean...actors) One other thing. The UK has seen its violent crme rates dropping consistently over the last 5 years or so. This is despite the fact that the current government has been the first for 20 years or more that has not been steadily increasing the size of the police force. Frankly I think America is stuck with Guns. I cannot see any elected body having the confidence to go for Gun removal from your society any time soon (the lesson of the disaster of prohibition probably ensures this in addition to any other factor). What would I do if I were an American? Well - probably press my representative for legislation to enforce licensing of guns on the basis of a test alongside the character reference stuff. Think of getting a car licence and apply the relevent bits to guns. Now if you would just like to reverse your Glock around the corner I am coming through. Thank you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neo33 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 This is Hitler the mutated son of Dean (if we can reverse history)! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 6, 2004 Author Share Posted January 6, 2004 Ha! I thought that was Tom Brennen dressed up for your night out together. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I don't think that gun control is a great solution to our American culture of violence. The guns that will be controlled already are. The guns that are not registered and licensed generally are those guns that are in the hands of perps, bangers, and those who do not have lawful intentions. Most new legislation designed to curtail unlawful use actually is of little burden to the unlawful, as their intent is aimed at the already lawful. It does get me greatly worked up that the American gun manufacturers often have employees working three shifts to make guns, when we already have one of the highest per capita ownership rates in the world. The last stats I heard three years ago was that we exported close to 68% of all handguns made in the US. I have been mugged in four different coutries...got stomped once, had a mutual stomping, and had two that regretted trying to stomp. Only in America have I had weapons pulled on me - three guns, two knives, and a rubber duck. That was one mean duck, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hwatkins Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 ---------------- On 1/6/2004 3:56:03 PM sheltie dave wrote: I have been mugged in four different coutries...got stomped once, had a mutual stomping, and had two that regretted trying to stomp. Only in America have I had weapons pulled on me - three guns, two knives, and a rubber duck. That was one mean duck, too! ---------------- Don't tell me Dave - the duck was wielded by the that pig - AdolphG... You gotta tell us about the rubber duck incident Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 What would I do if I were an American? Well - probably press my representative for legislation to enforce licensing of guns on the basis of a test alongside the character reference stuff. Think of getting a car license and apply the relevant bits to guns The issue here is citizens of the US do not have a right to drive a car, it is a privilege that can be revoked at will (yes it can, look it up). As far as licensing goes, who will register? Criminals? There are literally hundreds of laws on the books now that make illegal for a good many people to be near guns. We can look north at their licensing scheme; you remember the one that they promised would only cost 2 million dollars. In the rear 2005 it will surpass one Billion and may be, read may be, 5-10% accurate! Now, the US has what 100-200 times the quantity of firearms. Clinton wanted to follow Canadas lead but besides being unrealistic the cost would have been in the hundreds and hundreds of Billions. Test, test what, to see if a citizen is good enough to be afforded the rights guaranteed by the Constitution of the United States. I understand that you are not an American citizen so you may not know but The Constitution of the United States was not written to give rights to the Government, on the contrary, the Government is granted powers and authorities but not rights. The People have rights, as individuals and/or as a collective (State). This concludes the educational portion of our program. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3dzapper Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 "What would I do if I were an American? Well - probably press my representative for legislation to enforce licensing of guns on the basis of a test alongside the character reference stuff. Think of getting a car licence and apply the relevent bits to guns." The reason we in America need to purchase a drivers license is that there is not a guaranteed constitutional right to drive. That is what the government teaches us. I agree somewhat though in that I wholly support " shall issue" concealed carry permits. Training and a background check as acceptable trade offs to such a permit. Mark you take a very "Asian" (Zen/Hindu type) view of life. However a study of history reveals some of the most brutal, murderous governments in world history saying the same thing on one hand and murdering millions on the other. Those millions had no means to defend themselves, they were unarmed. Rick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gunman45 Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 mdeneen I clearly appreciate that you are a careful and responsible gun owner. I hope I didn't suggest otherwise. I truly did not think otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 Mark, You have made very good points. But it is a common failure of folks outside of orthodox Christianity to think it all deals with Heaven only. All of Scripture really points to how you live your life in the here and the now. It would grieve me greatly if I had to defend myself against any attacker. How would you defend yourself? Are you willing to be the victim as well, and leave a family behind? Or to be the one left behind when you could have stopped it from happening? If it were a robbery only, I could even give up my wallet while armed. It would surely depend on the circumstance. Someone actually attacking to inflict injury? I would retreat if possible, but want to be able to fight if need be. All religions aren't the same, not even close. The thing is, we could all be wrong, but we can't all be right. Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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