delano Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Sorry to bother you guys again but I have a dilemma. I went to check out the tube amp I was thinking of purchasing today (Shanling stp-80 tube integrated 35 watts ps). I thought it looked and sounded awesome with the Shanling t-80 tube cd player. Sorry I forgot to mention I will be using my Heresy 11's for this 2channel system. After I left the store I went to my friends place who just purchased an SET tube integrated made by a local audio engineer. The company is called Song Audio and they are based in Toronto. Well, I have to say that this amp blew me away with it's 4 watts of clean power. I can only describe the sound as "musical". I could listen to this amp for hours sans the fatigue. I also like the fact that it is made right in my home town by the owners hands. from his website (songaudio.com) it seems this man really cares about the music. the Shanling is made in China for the comparison. I am very new to the whole tube thing and both of these amps are roughly the same price ($2,000). I will be using this system a a fairly small listening room (9x12) and I know my heresy's are efficient enough for the SET.I listen mostly to Jazz and some lighter Rock and a little classical. Would you guy's think the SET would be a bad choice for my first and hopefully long lasting tube amp compared to the 35 watt integrated. Once again thanks Delano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 ---------------- On 11/28/2004 5:59:31 PM delano wrote: Sorry to bother you guys again but I have a dilemma. I went to check out the tube amp I was thinking of purchasing today (Shanling stp-80 tube integrated 35 watts ps). I thought it looked and sounded awesome with the Shanling t-80 tube cd player. Sorry I forgot to mention I will be using my Heresy 11's for this 2channel system. After I left the store I went to my friends place who just purchased an SET tube integrated made by a local audio engineer. The company is called Song Audio and they are based in Toronto. Well, I have to say that this amp blew me away with it's 4 watts of clean power. I can only describe the sound as "musical". I could listen to this amp for hours sans the fatigue. I also like the fact that it is made right in my home town by the owners hands. from his website (songaudio.com) it seems this man really cares about the music. the Shanling is made in China for the comparison. I am very new to the whole tube thing and both of these amps are roughly the same price ($2,000). I will be using this system a a fairly small listening room (9x12) and I know my heresy's are efficient enough for the SET.I listen mostly to Jazz and some lighter Rock and a little classical. Would you guy's think the SET would be a bad choice for my first and hopefully long lasting tube amp compared to the 35 watt integrated. Once again thanks Delano ---------------- Greetings: I like SET amps. I feel that they can do the job. The only question is the efficiency of the Heresy vs Cornwall, Cornwall IIs, Belles and K-Horns. Granted the few db of sensitivity is not much, but with Heresys, I would choose the higher powered Amplifier. Unless you will have a separate Sub and amp. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 You didn't tell us anything about your friend's speakers, and that's kind of important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delano Posted November 28, 2004 Author Share Posted November 28, 2004 Sorry, mr friends speakers were also heresy's. Delano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Then to me, it sounds like you're all SET! It's not for me, but it certainly sounds like it's for you -- so go for it and enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Yes, a low-power SET would absolutely be a bad choice. There is something to be said about buying local, though, over buying from Hong Kong, especially if there are any problems. Maybe the manufacturer in Toronto also makes a real amp that you could buy from him instead? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Sounds like you are another SET lover. They are my favorite, too. My advice would be to do some extended listening at your friend's place. Just confirm that these amps will drive Heresy's to your satisfaction and make your decision. If you really like the musicality of the SET's and they are powerful enough to produce dbs to your satisfaction, then you've found out what will float your boat. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Paul, The amp he is referring to is using EL34 output tubes in triode with an SET configuration. It is a nice looking amp, even if it is only 4 watts a side. I am just about done rewiring my ST-70. At least I will be done when the rest of the parts get here on Tuesday. That is more the power I would like (actually did like it, it just needed the upgrades). Marvel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dflip Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Some quotes from ultra audio, http://www.ultraaudio.com/equipment/songaudio_sa34_sb.htm Take the advice from above and listen to the amp again with your friend's heresys. Listen to different types of music at the volume you will be using. It might work for you, or it might be okay at normal volumes, but not allow you to turn it up when you want to. I would say it is close, for $1900 Cdn, I would give it another listen just to be sure. Don Did you say 4Wpc? The low power of the SA-34 SB was honestly not an issue with my Electras. The 92dB sensitivity of these speakers was enough to produce a satisfying listening level in my smallish (12 x 14) room, and I tend to like it loud. There was no sense that the amplifier was crapping out in the bass, and no sense of strain elsewhere. It must be said, however, that normal listening levels are about as loud as this amp could go in my setup. For more volume, just add more sensitive speakers and stir. If you require a bit more headroom, I would aim for at least 94dB loudspeakers (and watch out for the tendency of some speaker manufacturers to overstate sensitivity figures). Even so, lets face it, this aint no disco amp. If pounding subterranean bass lines and 12" woofers are your thang, then follow the flashing equalizer lights. How quick and fresh art thou My very positive experience with Holly Cole was repeated with a number of other female vocalists, including Rebecca Pidgeon, Alison Krauss, and Diana Krall. Small ensemble instrumental jazz and easy-listening popular music fared just as well. The lovely illuminating quality of the SA-34 SBs presentation often floored me. It was just beautiful, track after track. On busier and more aggressive material, such as Hugh Masekelas Hope , the SA-34 SB also acquitted itself admirably, though with less of the edge-of-your-seat speed and transient kick of which the KR is capable. Still, its remarkable separation and timbral accuracy stood the SA-34 SB in good stead, rendering even very energetic tracks such as my personal favorite, "Stimela (The Coal Train)," entrancing and satisfying. Again, I was struck by the ability of this amplifier to sing, and by the radiant sweetness and quiet background. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 If it sounds good to you, then go for it. Trust your ears and enjoy the music. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allan Songer Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 ---------------- On 11/28/2004 6:38:24 PM paulparrot wrote: Yes, a low-power SET would absolutely be a bad choice. There is something to be said about buying local, though, over buying from Hong Kong, especially if there are any problems. Maybe the manufacturer in Toronto also makes a real amp that you could buy from him instead? ---------------- Well, we all know by now what YOU think! And I too prefer 30 watts of push-pull 6L6 bliss. But HE LIKES the way the SET sounded! And I don't think these are made in Hong Kong--labor is WAAAY too expensive! These are made on the mainland. For $1900 you can buy these, get some REAL output tubes and never look back. No amp you can buy new will be as well made or hold their value like these. And I know they will sound FANTASTIC! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50593&item=5734638136&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 ---------------- On 11/28/2004 9:52:50 PM Allan Songer wrote: ---------------- On 11/28/2004 6:38:24 PM paulparrot wrote: Yes, a low-power SET would absolutely be a bad choice. There is something to be said about buying local, though, over buying from Hong Kong, especially if there are any problems. Maybe the manufacturer in Toronto also makes a real amp that you could buy from him instead? ---------------- Welcome back to the forum, I have been in the same boat as you, I woumd up with a different answer after owning a dozen different amps, including the Shanling SP80' with the T200C, I needed 2 sets of amps, 1 set of SET, and 1 PP. Depnding on my mood, and how I want to listen, determines the amps I play. I just could not find a happy medium. See my profile. hope this helps. Well, we all know by now what YOU think! And I too prefer 30 watts of push-pull 6L6 bliss. But HE LIKES the way the SET sounded! And I don't think these are made in Hong Kong--labor is WAAAY too expensive! These are made on the mainland. For $1900 you can buy these, get some REAL output tubes and never look back. No amp you can buy new will be as well made or hold their value like these. And I know they will sound FANTASTIC! http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50593&item=5734638136&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW ---------------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Delano, Here's the thing. A low-watt amp limits you to listening at an unrealistically low volume IF you want to listen to a wide range of recordings without clipping. Or to just some really crappy female vocalist lounge acts at a natural volume. Some people are not bothered by this clipping, which sounds kind of mushy when it's pushed. What happens, when you're rolling along fine with a recording and there's a big peak, is that the low-watt amp can't handle it, and this peak that you should be hearing--just for an example--maybe 9dB louder than the rest, will be rendered at only 3dB louder, with the other 6dB of what should have been there being smashed flat like you ran the signal through a compressor-limiter. Since you're new to tubes, probably a lot of things are going to sound good to you initially. But you can get intoxicated by the wrong thing, low power, and regret it later. True, it ain't gonna kill you to buy something and then find out you don't like it after you've lived with it longer. It's just going to cost you some money, and maybe it's worth it for the experience. The question to ponder is "Why limit yourself with a low-watt amp?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kev313 Posted November 28, 2004 Share Posted November 28, 2004 Because he likes it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 There is a lot to say for buying tube equipment from a local supplier especially if you are sure he will support you if you have problems. on the other hand, there are a lot of ways to be a mediocre tube amp, without seeing this canadian amps schematic or wiring quality or parts list it is hard to say if it is worth the money. the Shanling, while made in main land china (not hong kong) has been around a while now and I have only heard good things about its sound quality and general construction quality, so you can not go wrong there. can you get more info about the canadian offering? I think at that price point you should seriously consider a "pre-owned" amplifier, bought from ebay or audiogon, you can get something really special for $2,000 there. lastly, I think PPEL34 (even SE EL34) is about right for heresey, you might run out of gas with DHT SET... regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 We all end up trying more than one thing eventually. Mind as well try SET now and get it over with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Though I listen at about 90db in my 12x13 room and a set amp would probably not have much of a problem there with my Forte speakers, I prefer the power reserve of a PP amp. I have 55 wpc and I doubt that it normaly ever gets anywhere near that but music spikes have somthing to tap into. If you like SET and it will do the job for you, go for it. I do think that used will buy you more bang for the buck though, I bought my power amp 4 years old and still under factory warranty for $1200 when list on it new was $2600. Buy what you like, hey, whatever floats your boat Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 It's been said many times...let your ears be the judge! Both the 35 WPC Shanling and the 4 WPC Song Audio have excellent reviews, both have their strong suites, and either integrated would be a worthy addition to your Heresys. Sure, Paul has a great arguement concerning reserve power for dynamic peaks, and there's no denying that 4 watts per side can run out of steam if you listen over 95dB with Heresys. Because of the fact that I listen to my music to near-live levels up to and over 110dB, my 8 WPC 300B SET amp is being pushed near its limits with my 98.5dB sensitive Cornwalls. But it sounds clean, clear, and dynamic to my ears, even with its limited output power close to clipping, so I feel I made the right choice of SET amplification in my small room. You obviously like the sound of the lil' Song Audio 4 watter, but like others have said, spend more critical listening time with it, maybe connecting them to your Heresys if possible, before you buy. I personally love SET topology, but I have no problems using a more powerful PP circuit if more power is needed for higher levels...so far my 300B SET amp has no problems driving my Cornwalls, but if I ever relocate my system to a much larger room, I just may have to go with a more powerful tube amp if I want to continue listening at higher volume. Just my two cents...good luck with either amp you ultimately choose! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 why not borrow the amp and listen at your house - then you will be all SET to go! BTW, do you have a sub in the little room? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted November 29, 2004 Share Posted November 29, 2004 Delano, The reason your question is tough is because 1) You don't have a lot of tube experience 2) You state that you want your first purchase to be a keeper The best thing you could do is listen to a wide variety of equipment and see how they all strike you. Either get together with some audio enthusiasts in Toronto or buy some good deals on used equipment that you can turn around and sell without taking a big loss, after you've had them in your home long enough to get used to what they're like. Sometimes the sound signature you like at first doesn't hold up, and what seemed "musical" will later maybe bother you as being too colored. If it turns out 4 watts is enough for you, all well and good, but you won't know that until you've lived with low power for a while. Maybe your friend would loan you his amp for a week sometime when he's on vacation? Laying out $2000 for an experiment is risky. You lose a lot of resale value the minute you buy it new and it becomes used. And if you try only one amp, you won't know if you would've liked some other amp a lot better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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