seti Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 The best tweak I have found so far is to simply leave my tubes on as much as possible. I have recently started turning them on Thursday so they will be toasty by the weekend. The difference in cold and warm tubes to me is the difference between night and day. My only question is how much electricity does all this tube gear suck up? 2 x 300b monoblocks 1 x wright preamp and a cd player. The cdplayer isn't much but what about the tubes is it any more than solid state. I have never seen this brought up and was just curious. I gues I could turn off all the electricity in my house turn on the tube gear and watch the difference in meter spinage. This may be a dumb question but hell I want to know Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxg Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 When they are running they should not be burning to much - but burning is an interesting word - having had a flame out on a tube I dont do that anymore. If you leave them on for, say, an hour before listening is there really that much difference sonically? Also what is the expected life of your tubes? 5000 hours give or take? Seems a shame to use 70% of that in non-playing time. Your money and your risk of course....me? I will live with the possible reduction in quality now! T'aint worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfogg Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 You could get one of these: http://www.ahernstore.com/p4400.html and plug each piece into it to see how much juice it uses. "but what about the tubes is it any more than solid state." Yes, from the heaters and from the inefficiency of the amp class. Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audiokid Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 From your name, I assume you're using SET amps. If that's the case, you need to be aware that any single ended amplifier draws more current when at idle than when operating! So if the amp is sitting there with no signal, all that power is being dissapated by your tubes (as heat). Basically, when signal is applied, some of that power is being disappated by your speakers. So actually your drastically shortening your tube life by allowing your amps to idle. If you're using a PP amp that's running class B (AB), then this isn't quite the case. Having many years in the service/restoration business, I not in the "keep it turned on" camp. -DrDave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john4618 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I called my electric company about 15 years ago and here's the formula they gave me to calculate how much it costs per hour to run any electrical unit: (amps * volts) / 1000 = KWH then multiply (KWH * your electric companys KWH cost) = cost per hour to run unit Example: I have a small fan in my office that is rated at 0.8 amps, therefore: (0.8 amps * 120 volts) / 1000 = .0960 KWH .0960 KWH * .10604 KWH cost = .0102 cents > so my fan costs me about 1 cent per hour to run I got the .10604 KWH cost from my recent electric bill or you can call your local electric company and theyll have that cost for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Anonymous Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I wouldn't leave your tubes on that much because they degrade over time from being on so i would also consider that angle, buying new tubes all the time isn't something that i wouldn't want, but anyways my 2 cents Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stan krajewski Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Maybe an electrical engineer will respond to this post or maybe you should put this in the technical section. I heard that powering up tubes is what kills not only tubes but other electrical components. About 5 years ago I was in the market for some monoblocks. One vendor, in an effort to show that tubes were reliable and log-lived stated that a set of RCA tubes had been powered up in an amp for 45 years! Another approach is the use of a Variac. It powers up electrical equipment gently so what you wind up doing is never shutting it down completely. The point here is that these may be "wives tales". What we need here is someone with long and hard experience and "facts" with respect to the question of "leaving equipment on". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 ---------------- My only question is how much electricity does all this tube gear suck up? ---------------- You should be able to find out from the manufacturers. CAT says leaving on my preamp (50 watts) will greatly reduce tube life, and Joule Electra says the monoblocs (500 watts each!) "should not be left on unattended." At that KWH usage, I don't leave any of those on when not used anyway. IMHO, it's not a bad idea to be aware of all your components' consumption. My 2-box CD player, which was designed to be left on all the time, uses 25w (transport) plus 60w (DAC) = 85 watts at all times. However, I power them with a PS Audio P-300, which roughly doubles the components' power consumption. At 170w for the CDP and P-300 (plus unwanted extra heat), I leave all that off, too. Larry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cal Blacksmith Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 My amp (sonic frontiers power 1) has a switch to keep the tubes warm between listening sessions but reduce the usage of the tube, basically, running the tube with low power (like the variac). The recommended usage is if it will be several hours between sessions, use the switch, if it will be the next day, turn the amp off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 14, 2004 Author Share Posted December 14, 2004 Wow Thanks for all the feedback. I think part of the problem is that I am a tad impatient and I want it to sound good NOW! It could be in my head that the longer they are on the better they sound but I know there is a big difference between a cold start and a couple hours afterward. The most I listen to my system is on the weekends or after a mentally grueling day perhaps I will try just turning them on in the mornings and turning them off at night over the weekends. It may be my subconcious brain trying to get my turn burn out my 300bs so I can try the new sophia 300bs http://www.sophiaelectric.com/pages/se/princess_300b.htm thanks again for all the info Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I always thought that the tubes warmed up rather quickly and stabilized. However, it was transformers that take the time to get up to operating temp. I also just read that on this forum. I do notice that my systems definitely warm up and sound better after maybe an hour after which there is little or no change. I thought it was the trannys, not the tubes causing this slow improvement. Maybe someone can tell me. Thanks Edit: One more thing. I know what you mean by "want it to sound good NOW". I agree to a point. But one thing I have always appreciated is listening to these tube systems actually warm up and go through their "stretching". I can't really describe why, just that I like to hear it warm up and develop its full sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 After about 20 minutes, I can't really tell the difference. I do know what Mark's referring to as far as "stretching." I never thought of it that way before but it's a pretty good description. I've also heard too many horror stories to leave them on when I'm not home. I have a hard time leaving them on when taking a shower. Better safe than sorry I always say. I remember Mobile saying he never turns his off since all the trouble occurs when switching on and off as opposed to just running idle. He also mentioned at that time that he had one particular amp left on for over a year (or something to that effect). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 I would agree with the Audiokid and MDeneen. Another formulation is that say that you get 8,000 hours of peak (non-distorted, non-weak) power out of your tubes. If they are left on 48 hours with no use per week, you will lose over 25 % of tube life per year + tube cost + electricity cost. That does not factor in if something should malfunction, the risk of damage to equipment, ot even fire. Such fire may not be covered if your Insurance Company knows of the practice and you leaving home with the equipment deliberately left on. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebes Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 Let me chime in with some quasi non-technical reasoning. Tubes get warm which means they are not completly using all their energy. Warm+electricity=waste, if you need a formula. This winter I'm warming my hands on ocassion by resting them on top of the case cover for my Scott. Then there is the fear factor. I'm not about to leave my house with something made of tubes burning. Just doesn't seem safe to me. Finally, if I needed two days to warm up The Twins so they'd sound right, I think I'd trade them in on another pair! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted December 14, 2004 Share Posted December 14, 2004 ---------------- On 12/14/2004 4:02:17 PM mdeneen wrote: "Mark---Yes, the tubes alone come up quick. The remainder of the parts especially transformers can take an hour or so." *My 300B amp with big air-gapped Scholls take about that long. "I have placed temp probes in all sorts of locations on my preamps and the transformer is the last item to "flatten out" with regards tempertaure. About one hour exactly to reach final temp. Since the xfrmr output voltage varies with core temperature, small changes in tube voltage are happening during this part of warm up." *Yup. My little Magnavox SE amp, which has rather small output transformers(and cores), only takes 20 minutes to a half hour to come up to temp. Dodger makes a good point. That old vintage gear with floating chassis grounds ain't gonna fly with fire insurance. They'll laugh at ya. Fire Marshall bill would have a sh*t-fit if he walked in here...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted December 15, 2004 Author Share Posted December 15, 2004 Hmm never thought about the safety factor. The main reason I leave them on starting Thursday night is the impatient factor because I like to listen all weekend. If I am home tunes are on and I just hate waiting but I suppose an hour or two is really not that long to wait. I've never had any accidents with audio gear going up in smoke if I did I would have a cow : ) Have you guys seen this tube based clock ? I want one too cool! http://www.audioadvisor.com/store/productdetail.asp?sku=NIXIECLOCK&product_name=Nixie%20Tube%20Clock Thanks for the input Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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