sunnysal Posted January 17, 2005 Share Posted January 17, 2005 chambers, what was the "premium set" of wires? I want to know what was being compared here. I have not yet tried a test like yours (I will probably do it some day if I can get my firends interested) but I have auditioned different cables in my system and found that I could hear differences, like in solid versus stranded wires I also felt I heard differences in silver versus copper...not huge differences mind you, but I ended up auditioning wires until I found the sound I liked best. If I DO decide to perform such a test I will try afterwards NOT to claim I have defined this issue once and for all...just furthered my personal search for audio nirvana and tried to share it with my fellow enthusiasts. DJK makes some good points, it is foolish IMHO to think you have settled this hotly contested issue via your "test". regards, tony Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurencekarl Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 I think you meant "astrologer" not astronomer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chambers1517 Posted January 18, 2005 Author Share Posted January 18, 2005 I have a set of Silver Science SS-XB-70-8. I also have 2 klipschorns and 3 Lascalas. They are set up in a home theater. My audio shelves are in the wall above the right Khorn. The left Khorn is about 17 feet away. Im not completely anal about it, at least I have the same length on the fronts. I know this topic is spicey but it is some honest observations. I live in Knoxville Tn. and would love to try more if anyone is close by. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/17/2005 9:55:32 PM DeanG wrote: If I were to ask an established, well credentialed astronomer a question about space -- and did not understand the answer or explanation -- I would ask for clarification, so I could understand. I don't think I would respond with ridicule or challenge. Banging on DJK isn't too bright. ---------------- Dean, I don't know DJK's credential's. I'm a physical scientist and while there are a few scientists that stand up at a conference and say things like "your work is so flawed it's funny. You don't know what you're doing!", I'm glad they are in the minority. When someone attacks people like that, he shouldn't expect polite responses. The most respected scientists act more like teachers than bullies, explaning the problem rather than ridiculing. What about Bob's reply that it's not much of a capacitor? That's all the reply I needed to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/17/2005 9:55:06 AM silversport wrote: Do you think this carrys over to interconnects? Bill ---------------- Stepping up from what is supplied a notch or two, may give better performance. Beyond that, you are paying for someone's car. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 One of the big pushing points right now is to use silver. What metal oxidizes the fastest in an average home? I agree that no-one should jump on, tell someone they are wrong or go negative. Simple questions OR pointing out where a test may be flawed so a re-test may be done lends one the most credibility. Any statement can in some way be shown differently. If Einstein were to Post that someone's system is poor without knowing what Components are in that system, I would go along with dismissing his opinions. Years ago, but not that long, these arguments did not take place. Now, it's like dissing your Mother. Some HEAR a difference. Some PERCEIVE a difference. Some hear NO difference. Some hear an EXPECTED difference. That's fine, no matter where you are in that. But getting on someone without knowledge of all factors in a manner that "Pooh-poohs" all results makes me wonder about bias. Tony was much more credible and had better manners in his response to differ. In what way was it flawed? What effect would a capacitor on channel B have? I'm sorry Dean, anyone that just goes off NEEDS to explain where, what and why. That's a mighty pedestal when you start throwing negatives without knowing all of the factors. Was it humid to affect sinuses? What Pre-amplifier, Amplifier, CD unit, SACD unit, DVD unit was used. What interconnects were used? What terminations were used, musical choices? If it was rock, were the choices live music or studio recorded? Were wireless microphones used, what brand and quality? Any skilled Scientist, Technician, theorist would ask those questions BEFORE stating that a person needs a better system. Now if djk has knowledge of all of those variables, and there are more, just state in a scientific manner that because xxx was done and xxx was not done the results are xxx. The questions that were asked in this thread regarding solid copper vs stranded, the question of interconnects and the advice not to leave a channel with no load make sense. I thank the Poster for his time and the opinions proffered. It gives cause to think and to question. The factor of listening with light off is also valid. Cables and Inter connects are not new. They have been a factor in many debates and will continue to do so. Bias, Open mind, Equipment utilized, what one expects or does not expect will keep people arguing for years. Some will read this and dismiss it. Some will think. Welcome to the Newcomers. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 While I generally agree with the statement that wire is wire I have no problem with the high end wire makers pushing their product. This is America after all and the free market system rules here. If someone has an extra $10K lying around and they want to spend it on wires why should we stop them? You and I know that it may not make a difference but why should we care? It's not our money being spent. Some people like silk sheets and some people like cotton sheets. Big deal... Laters, Jeff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artto Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/17/2005 4:12:59 PM djk wrote: Your 'test' is so flawed its funny! I agree you probably couldn't hear the difference between a good cable (say a Teflon twisted pair like Kimber) and 500 ft of cheap PVC in parallel all the time. The wire hooked to the undriven amplifier outputs is still hooked up to the speaker and constitutes a capacitor. You have proven: You don't know what you're doing. Your teacher doesn't know what he is doing. Your friends don't know what they're doing. And I will guess that you have less than the best associated equipment. I am tired of people that brag that they can't hear, they need a new hobby. I have heard the difference between a short length of twisted pair Teflon vs 12ga Monster with a very pedestrian amplifier (Adcom GFA535), its small, but real. Teflon wire may be had surplus for about what cheap zip cord goes for retail. Of course if you can't hear..... ---------------- Would you care to put your money where your mouth is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JBryan Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Here's my qualified 2¢ - This is truly a "to each his own" topic but before someone disparages anothers choice in equipment, it'd be a good idea to consider that every metal and alloy passes electrons differently. Whether someone can discern a difference depends on many variables but the sensitivity of his or her system (and ears) is paramount. In my case for example, I had an amp driving 88dB speakers and it sounded nice and quiet. I then installed Khorns into the system and the amp sounded great but I discovered that it was noisy as hell attached to 104dB speakers. What happened? My system was now much more sensitive and I became aware of subtleties that could not be heard before. The same can be said for cables and ICs. I pick up speakers on a regular basis and when I get them home, I just want to know if they work so I hook 'em up with whatever zip cord or monster cable I find in the box. I listen for a while and run music while I'm away. When I return, if everything sounds OK, I'll hook the speakers up with "better" cables. I've always heard a difference - there's usually more definition in the bass (sounds less "muddy") and more detail overall. I'm not saying that expensive cables equate to better sound. If someone hooks 'em up to a boombox I doubt anyone would notice but I can't imagine not hearing at least some nuance between different cables with something as revealing as a Klipsch speaker at the end of the line. Have fun -Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klipsch Employees Trey Cannon Posted January 18, 2005 Klipsch Employees Share Posted January 18, 2005 Man I wish I could state my thoughts on this...However, it may not be "PC" to say that wire type and gauged (for runs less than about 10 ft) dont amount to much. But as I said, that may not be "PC" interconnects are a bit different. Lower voltage ... and you are not trying to send out power. You only want the signal. Buy adding impedance to your ckt. you cause a mismatch between the output Z and Input Z. The larger the mismatch the more you may "de-grade" your signal. With speaker level you want that transfer of power. in speaker level you have say 2.83 Volts into 8 Ohms = 1 watt. With a speaker that can give you 100db @ 1 W / 1 M, If you add 0.004 Ohms ( 18 awg wire has a resistance of about 4 Ohms per 1000 ft of wire in a temp of 20 deg C , thus 10 ft of 18 awg wire will have 0.004 Ohms per 10 ft) more to the load, the load changes by about 2 %. (Time for some math) 2.83V x 2.83V = 8.0089V / 8 ohms = 1.0011Watts 2.83V x 2.83V = 8.0089V / 8.004 Ohms = 1.0006 Watts Thats 0.005 Watts ...therefore, if 1 watt = 100db then 1.005 Watts = 100.01db. In a very controlled room with a very good listener MAY can hear 0.25db change. (most of us would need 1-2 db change for us to hear it) We are talking 1/10 th of a db.... But I want to be "PC" so I wont tell you any of that.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JJkizak Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 That was one excellent explanation. Maybe that's why they pay you the big bucks. JJK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Trey: Your Posts are always PC. Sometimes you doodle and add formulas regarding one thing or another. Those are helpful as we figure things out. It challenges our brain. But in a PC way. dodger Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Excellent! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dodger Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/18/2005 6:39:02 PM silversport wrote: Excellent! Bill ---------------- Excellent indeed. Any news? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-MAN Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 ---------------- On 1/17/2005 8:55:59 PM Gramas701 wrote: thats a pretty huge coil for that amount of inductance.... ---------------- Yeah, but its extremely short at only 200 ft., as coils go. DM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Dennis wasn't talking about the capacitance in a certain length of wire. He read about the setup, and said, "The wire hooked to the undriven amplifier outputs is still hooked up to the speaker and constitutes a capacitor". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted January 18, 2005 Share Posted January 18, 2005 Advised to give 'em a call...they're closed now...thanks, Win! Bill Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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