3dzapper Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 "It's just that some are talking about chest pounding dynamics from a low powered SET. Even with a Klipschorn, I find this difficult to digest." I tend to agree with you Edwin as re the 2A3 SET that I have heard. 300B SET at 8 watts does have much stronger bass. Though it is not as controlled as in other topologies the mids and highs shine. Lately, I have been sharing the Khorns with the Wright Mono 10s and homespun 300B amp almost to the exclusion of all others. Rick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 On 8/8/2005 2:07:02 PM Anarchist wrote: Would that be 1976? The items I have reference Paul recommending high-quality, 20 watt minimum amps... was surprising to me given their efficiency but thats what it said. I, personally, having listened to Khorns for quite a few hours now would suggest the Eico - at 14watts would likely be towards the minimum. It, of course, all depends on your listening habits and the volume and realism you seek from your speakers. While quite good at very low volumes, I have found the bass really starts pumping when I dial in about 1/3 of the volume level on my 50 watt tube amp. I don't want to perpetuate the flame war, but you do realise that having the volume dial a third of the way up on a 50W amplifier doesn't mean you are outputting a third of the power, right? First, the scale is logarithmic. A third of the way up might correspong to -40 dB, 1/10000 of maximum power, or any other fraction. Second, you can hit 100% output way before the maximum on the dial. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauln Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Pardon me, but is this a private fight or can anyone join in? (a frequent inquiry within traditional Irish pubs...) First of all, I must reveal again my despair with some on this thread that seem to be playing with their gear without any sense of proper purpose. When the discussions degrade into claims about how loud particular systems play it just saddens me to realize that some folks here don't actually enjoy listening to music so much as making a loud noise with their stuff. This is like prefering to sit in the garage racing the engine watching the tachometer rather than taking the wheels out for a drive to feel the wind and find beauty in a well engineered car(or find beauties, for we bachelors). Second, its even worse because many do not understand the operation of the lowly SPL meter. The average setting is fairly accurate, but the peak setting was particularly designed to average the spoken voice with a shorter collection period. It is not the true peak. PWK has written that with the meter on the peak setting, the actual true peak level is 13dB higher. For those that follow this kind of thing, there is much liturature that finds the high 80's peak SPL is the level where most people are satisfied that they are hearing a full and complete capture of the music. This puts the true level peaks around 100dB, which is close to what many consider the "full orchestra" level of reproduction (maybe slightly higher for we orchestraphiles). There is much around lately that regards the onset of distortion within the ear if one goes much louder... Third, I have mentioned in this forum before that I have gone though periods during which I came to think I was gaining respect for certain forum members up to the point of finding that they mentioned particular peices of music they favored highly. At that point it became crashingly clear that we human beings absolutely do not hear music the same in any way. Some of the things people here have admitted to enjoying listening to are so bad I can't comprehend the mentality. Yet, I know that much of what I treasure is admitedly in the "difficult listening" or "unlistenable" category for others. How is this to be resolved? Quite frankly, the resolution is not strictly possible. There is no independent characterization of the quality of music appart from an individual person's listening experience. Everyone's background, interests, influences, and abilities to hear, interpret, and enjoy music is unique to that one person. Groups of people that share some of these attributes in common will find that they can communicate with each other about their likes and dislikes to the point that one may make an inference, and therefore a recommendation that another of the group actually likes. But this may be quite rare and may be close to impossible in a heterogenous forum as this. The foregoing applies as well to the choice or circumstance of one's equipment. The important thing is to enjoy the sound as music, not the music as sound. If your enjoyment is increased by a diffent system, does it matter if it is louder, softer, closer, farther, higher, lower, deeper, dimmer? Yes, phenomologically it makes all the difference in the world. If you focus on the music the pursuit is legitimate. If what is sought is centered on sound for sound's sake; one is lost. The behavioral indication of this is a neurotic posturing of attitudes and assertions that can never be resolved. Its what makes for fighting threads as this. It lends no grace nor support to an argument to say that because of engineering or physics that another fellow cannot be truly enjoying his listening experience. Music trumps sound. The more you learn about the physical, sensory, auditory, neurological, phemonological, and psychlogical chain of music as experience, the less you find to argue about concerning the independent natural attributes of the sound. In closing, I wish all well in their pursuits musical. Just don't assume you know what it is like to be me. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 thanks jeff for the info, so you would use a DS-25 for the output on this schematic? where is the E83CC tube used? I do not see it, only a 6SJ7, a 300B and a 5U4G...thanks, tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Painful Reality Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 ---------------- On 8/9/2005 9:28:25 PM sunnysal wrote: thanks jeff for the info, so you would use a DS-25 for the output on this schematic? where is the E83CC tube used? I do not see it, only a 6SJ7, a 300B and a 5U4G...thanks, tony ---------------- Judging by the 1K cathode resistor on the 300B, the current draw must be around 60-70 mA. A DS-025 with a standart airgap would be perfect. Going with a 880 ohm resistor would require a DS-025 with a large airgap adjusted for 80 mA. The E83CC must be a brain fart from L'Audiophile magazine. They were pretty good to make those typos/errors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunnysal Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 nice, simple design...but perhaps if I am to take the plunge into DIY I should just build the Seth...I love the sond of 2A3 PP and those could drive the mids in my triamp system (leaving the current amp to drive the tweeters). tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jt1stcav Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 ---------------- On 8/9/2005 9:21:43 PM pauln wrote: ..."In closing, I wish all well in their pursuits musical. Just don't assume you know what it is like to be me." Paul ---------------- I couldn't have said it better! Bravo, Paul. I love my 300B SET amp, but I don't expect others would, or should. My system obviously works for me and my musical tastes, while others with their 40 watt EL34 PP amps obviously work for them. That's fine by me; I have no problems with that. Why should I? My one bro digs low power 6BQ5 PP amps, while my youngest brother likes his high powered KT88 PP amp. Cool! Nothing wrong with diversity! So why should I hate their systems? Why would others want to criticize my system? Why can't we just accept what others own and enjoy and leave it at that? After all, our interpretation of how our music sounds to each and every one of us is all that really matters, is it not? None of us hear exactly alike, that's why there are so many different sounding systems throughout the world, whether it's SET, PP, OTL, SS, BASH, whatever! Use your systems, listen to your music, and enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 ---------------- On 8/9/2005 3:48:01 PM Painful Reality wrote: ---------------- On 8/9/2005 2:59:10 PM ben. wrote: Uh oh. Someone said the D word... ---------------- Yeah... Each one have their sequence of words that will kickstart them. Usually, the "D" word associated with any power rating claim whatsoever will get me going and going. But a ceiling fan to install and hunting the dinner for the milkmachine will refrain me to pursue my usual habit. ---------------- It's so easy to build a pentode connected SE 6BQ5 amplifer. I just don't understand why folks would pay the cash they pay for this stuff. Or simple things like tube linestages for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 ---------------- On 8/9/2005 9:21:43 PM pauln wrote: Pardon me, but is this a private fight or can anyone join in? (a frequent inquiry within traditional Irish pubs...) ---------------- Great post, Paul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sputnik Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 All I know about SET is that the amps look cool. I hope no one is offended, but I ran across this and it's just too fitting to not post with all the talk about chest thumping and falling asleep. EDIT: Better add some smileys here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J M O N Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 ---------------- On 8/8/2005 7:56:10 PM Parrot wrote: From PWK's ad: "To do it requires no more than 60 watts. Each speaker, being horn loaded, requires only a 20 watt amplifier." Please note the word "requires." In the brochure, it *suggests* 20W minimum, which is I suppose a more polite way of saying it. ---------------- Well, I don't want to get this whole thing started up again, but I just have to correct the math error. In this particular ad, it mentions two Khorns and center Belle. It also says "requires no more than 60 Watts". Divide that by the three speakers and that is where the 20 Watt amplifier comes in. Reading carefully again, it says "requires NO MORE than 60 Watts." This implies you only need a MAXIMUM of 20 Watts per speaker, not a MINIMUM of 20 Watts. Which would also imply you can get by with less (provided you have speakers as sensitive as Khorns). In fact, further down in the article is mentions that a Khorn with a 10 Watt amp "would put far more music into a room than our 300 Watts into an acoustic suspension system." Personally, I currently own both SET and PP. I have to say that the little SET can put out a lot more volume with my Khorns than I ever would have expected. So much so that it probably satisfies my volume desires at least 98% of the time. My PP amp is 45 Watts, which may as well be 10,000 with K-horns. This obviously suits my needs for those few times when I really want to make a racket. By the way, the Space Shuttle landed out this way this morning. At about 5:07 A.M., a humongous KA-BOOM provided the wake-up call. All the car alarms in the neighborhood subsequently went off. There were no dogs barking as I'm sure they were all scared $#!~&%*^. Nothing like a good sonic boom to put things in perspective. Bet none of your systems can do that, regardless of your choice in topology. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightrider Posted August 9, 2005 Share Posted August 9, 2005 Are we talking solid state 20 watts or 20 tube watts. I bet we can get that one going if we try hard enough. I am with the tube persuasion crowd. nightrider Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 ---------------- On 8/9/2005 8:24:38 PM psg wrote: I don't want to perpetuate the flame war, but you do realise that having the volume dial a third of the way up on a 50W amplifier doesn't mean you are outputting a third of the power, right? ---------------- Yes. I also realize on my Khorns 3 is very loud and on my Heresies not so loud. There is also the effect modifying the volume control on this amplifier has had on its attenuation. If I wished to calculate the specific wattage being used I would employ my SPL meter and do the math. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted August 10, 2005 Share Posted August 10, 2005 Why cant we all just get along? Rodney King 1992 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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