fini Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 BTW, are there ANY Ken Griffin LPs that are worth anything? The local thrift store has a ton of his stuff (as well as another ton of small label organ music). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Sometimes I buy instructional LPs for Mrs. fini. I don't want to give the impression it's "all about me." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I have not played this yet, but it may just be my life story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmsummer Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Must....not....say....it. Not....polite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garymd Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 You are the one telling me I'm yet to hear a "decent" vinyl setup...and so far the most expensive I've heard has been around $15,000. How much was the setup in Hope? Was it "decent" on your standards? Not like it matters, the acoustics were horrid and so was the volume. I've also heard a few dozen vinyl rigs here and there all ranging between relatively cheap and moderately priced. The majority of vinyl lovers out there would say I've heard quite a few systems that represent good sounding vinyl. But if that's still not enough personal experience, tell me what I need to listen to and with what gear etc etc...I will glady give a blunt review, especially if it means claiming the vinyl sounds better. I'm willing to drive within a 2 hour radius from 60504 or 61820. Doc, I DO admire your bluntness! BTW - What $15K TT have you heard? I didn't realize. Please tell! Any chance you can make it to the MD/DC/VA Musicfest this October? There will be a few good vinyl setups to hear on this trip! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryC Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Any chance you can make it to the MD/DC/VA Musicfest this October? There will be a few good vinyl setups to hear on this trip! A Maryland-DC-No. Virginia Klipsch and Music Fest! I believe they'll compete with the $15K item you heard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Money would be the only issue with a trip up northeast. If you can think of any side work I can do while up there to fund the airline tickets I would be more than interested. I don't remember the names of any of the TT's I've listened to, though I should be able to point them out if I see a picture. Most of them aren't with klipsch speakers which is why I never mention them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 DrWho--I see a 192kHz mention.....uh oh. Speed kills. Faster is not always better and while audiophiles love the idea of 'faster', all converters will create more signal damage at 192 than at 88/96. It is a sales tool only (as is 'resolution', 'hi-rez', etc). Ya know, I wrote 192 and didn't think it looked right so I looked up the studio's ADC/DAC and realized it actually runs at 96kHz, 24Bit [:$] It's the Motu 828mkII for anyone interested: http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828 I am curious though why you think 192kHz should sound worse...do they sacrifice accuracy to achieve the larger bandwidth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Money would be the only issue with a trip up northeast. If you can think of any side work I can do while up there to fund the airline tickets I would be more than interested. I don't remember the names of any of the TT's I've listened to, though I should be able to point them out if I see a picture. Most of them aren't with klipsch speakers which is why I never mention them. Dr. Who, That's hilarious. You make a big deal about hearing a $15,000 turntable system and you can't remember the name? Hmmmmm?????????? Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Def Leper Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Well, I have quite a few analog recordings that are not (have never been) and may never be available on CD. .....and, of course, many, many recordings on CD that were made after the demise of LP as a mass medium and are not available on analog. I do have many recordings on both LP and CD, and even a few on various combinations of 78, 45, mono LP, stereo LP and CD. In some cases the digital version is better and in some cases the analog. Do you listen to CD's with damaged equipment, faulty cables, blown speakers and blame the bad sound on the CD? Not unless you are an idiot. Having a way to thoroughly clean the analog recordings is very important. However, there are hundreds of recordings that are flawed, including digital recordings, but we enjoy the music anyway. The music is what's important, not the recording media. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 The same concept can be applied to home systems. All you vinyl lovers tweak the crap out of your system for that one perfect sound that you're looking for. Would you actually expect any other medium to sound its best in that same setup? Try bringing the reel to reel master tape (since 'it's gotta be analog') into your home setup - I can guarantee that it will sound like crap. If I may make an observation...I see a lot of vinyl guys running around changing out every part of their turntables - gotta have the best needle, the best arm, the best cartridge, the best preamp, etc etc...and then gotta baby the records and do this and do that... The point being that the sound is constantly changing. And then take into account that every playing of the vinyl adds to the wear and tear...how many times can you play a record before the change in sound is audible? I'm yet to get an answer to that one [] But ultimately, it all comes down to the song you're listening to. Whether it be AM radio, the best CD rig, or the best LP rig, it's still the same bloody song. Either you enjoy it or you don't. (though following that logic to its conclusion implies that we all go out and get HTIB's...) Dr. Who, Who are you BSing? On the issue of master reel to reels tape played on a home system. NO. They do not sound like crap on a good home system. I've heard a few. On "And then take into account that every playing of the vinyl adds to the wear and tear...how many times can you play a record before the change in sound is audible? I'm yet to get an answer to that one []" Again, you are speaking from a point of view, with evidently, no experience. I have LP's I purchased new that are over 25 or 30 years old that still sound great and I'm not a fanatic on record cleaning. Vinyl will last an incredible amount of time with "average" care. The wear and tear argument is very long in the tooth and very overplayed. It's easy to tell it's something you read, yet have no experience with. Last, if you enjoy what "You" are hearing, be it CD or AM radio, that's fine, but your arguments clearly indicate you have NO extensive experience with vinyl. Please don't pretend you have any expertise in this area. You don't. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrot Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I have LP's I purchased new that are over 25 or 30 years old that still sound great and I'm not a fanatic on record cleaning. Vinyl will last an incredible amount of time with "average" care. The wear and tear argument is very long in the tooth and very overplayed. Although jazman's two posts were needlessly instigating, he is right on the money about vinyl lasting a long time. I have records I bought in 1970 that still sound excellent today and I played them for years on a family console unit and a suitcase record player. I have seen people severely damage LPs the same day they buy them by handling them with reckless disregard, but that's not the equipment's fault. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 That's hilarious. You make a big deal about hearing a $15,000 turntable system and you can't remember the name? Hmmmmm?????????? Knocking a person's memory capability is real classy. Good job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldbuckster Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Could it be all you die hard vinyl guys are listening to Khorns,Belles, La scalas with big tube amps, or maybe small SET amps, and play them so loud you can't tell if the sound has faults? Why don't you lay off Dr. Who awhile, I think you are starting to get way to personal about this subject. People are entitled to their own opinions, this happens every time this subject comes up. THE MUSIC MATTERS MORE........................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 I never claimed to be an expert with vinyl or even have tons of experience with it. In fact, I am very open about my limited experience. But for someone with an open mind, you might expect at least some strong positive experiences with the medium if it's so spectacular... Have you actually ever taken the reel to reel master and then played it side by side with its LP counterpart? A lot of time is spent trying to get the final result as close as possible. It's quite a headache actually. I have no personal experience, but have worked side by side with engineers that have. For what it's worth I did grow up in the analog recording studio, even worked 5 years before running it for 2 years and then dropping it to go off to college. Now I just do recording projects on the side. Nobody wanted to transition to digital until after the blind listening tests were performed...and that's not to say that digital is perfect either - rather far from it. In fact, we kept a lot of the old gear to use as effects boxes. It's hard to get that signature sound of tape saturation without an actual reel of tape. And the huge reduction in cost to go digital opens up the possibilities for better acoustics, processing, and microphones, which is ultimately the limiting factor in even the greatest of studios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 THE MUSIC MATTERS MORE........................... Which is exactly what I was trying to say from the beginning. In fact, I don't think I once attacked vinyl. Worst case I made an outsider comment to what apparently goes on in the 'vinyl world', which ultimately just takes away from valuable listening time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edwinr Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Hey! What's going on? Everyone's picking on Mike! [] I have to agree with some of the comments made by jazman (not all of them...). I have vinyl going back to the 1950's. It's still playable. Actually, I have to go further with that - it sounds bloody fantastic! No snap, carckle or pop here. Even though I've played the stuff stacks of times, and whoever owned the albums before me must have done the same. I will say that I have bought some preowned vinyl from thrift stores and they sound awful. This is where a record cleaner (VPI 16.5?) might come in handy. Subjectively I still couldn't say which format sounds better. Maybe if I lined up the very best source hardware from each format and played the same recording on each I might get an idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazman Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 THE MUSIC MATTERS MORE........................... Which is exactly what I was trying to say from the beginning. In fact, I don't think I once attacked vinyl. Worst case I made an outsider comment to what apparently goes on in the 'vinyl world', which ultimately just takes away from valuable listening time. Dr. Who, It would seem more appropriate then to stick with what you may know, or think you know about digital, and not include the outsider comments on the vinyl world in your dissertations. It infers that if one knows something about one topic, by association it must mean one knows something about anything else included following the aforementioned topic. And yes, the music matters. Nevertheless, the quality of the presentation adds immensely to the enjoyment. Do I want to listen to AM radio all day, or one or two LPs. Quality vs quantity? Everyone must endeavor to decide for themself without the proselytism of how great digital is vs analog, or whatever, especially when you don't know what you're talking about. Klipsch out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
garyrc Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 Dr. Who, You said: "Editing the sound in the digital domain is a totally different issue and there are mathematical explanations for why it will sound bad, but digital purely used as a medium is awesome." Why is digital editing more of a problem than digital recording? I'm not doubting it, I just don't know why this would be true. If the editors use many generations, I can see a problem, but it would be a problem in analogue, too. Do you know of a website where we can look at the methodology used by guy offering the million dollar reward? I'm assuming it involves repeated, double blind trials, and some kind of statistical analysis, right? If one individual distinguishes between the two at the .05 level, does that individual get the million? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted July 12, 2006 Share Posted July 12, 2006 When editing in the digital domain you have to deal with rounding errors due to the finite number of bits. It's not a huge issue as long as you keep the amount of processing to a minimum and do it all at once. Many of the fancier programs will temporarily edit with more bits and then convert it back down to try and alleviate the issues. I'll see if I can find the website...everytime I mention it others always post the link shortly after. One of the advantages of the test is that the same clock signal is driving the input and output of the digital conversion - so it's really digital at its best. I don't think the level of testing is as strenuous as the .05 level...but it is based on double blind ABX testing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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