Disappointed in my audition of the RF83

[pinipig523]

Man... I came out disappointed from my RF83 audition. It was powered by a Rotel RB1090 and even this monster amp could not bring out the midrange enough. The RF83 sounded slightly thin and didnt have the midrange dynamics that I expected from the Klipsch RF flagship speaker. Not only was the bass a bit on the leaner and anemic side, but the guitar (acoustics is usually Klipsch's forte) from a track by the Dave Matthews band sounded bland and blended in, there wasnt that authoritative twang that I heard when I listen to my Martin Logan Summits or the BW 802D (diamonds) speakers... albeit, those are on a completely different price league.

I was looking to add the RF83 as part of my upcoming HT arsenal, but I'm not so sure after the audition.

Does anyone have similar thoughts regarding the newly announced RF83?

[Jay481985]

most people find rotels not great with klipsch, try a different amp

BTW you have the 802D?

[pinipig523]

Jay... I remember you from the promedia forums... nice .

I even tried the Krell 400xi and the newer Rotel Class D RB1091 monoblocks (these sound very different from the 1090, though I think the 1090 is still the best Rotel of all).

Dont know how much better of an amp I can use considering these amps already approach the price of the RF83 alone.

And no... I dont own the 802D (the 802D were right next to the RF83) but I do own the Martin Logan Summits... both are evenly priced at around the $12K mark. I was auditioning the RF83 as I started my audio journey with the Klipsch Promedia 4.1 about 4 years ago and have a full Klipsch setup at my parents' family room due to my recommendation (instead of bose). I was thinking of the RF83 as the backbone of my upcoming HT setup. It's hard to build around Martin Logans as they are very costly.

Even with the RSW12, I still found the RF83 lacking.... dont know what though. I was hoping for dynamic sound suitable for HT but it was slightly veiled and lacking in overall resolution. I'm hoping to audition again just to make sure.

Anyone have thoughts on the RF83 vs the previous flagship - the RF7? Am I better off going with an RF7 (if I can find one)?

[edwinr]

If you've been listening extensively to Summits, I'm not surprised at your comments. As you said, the Summits are around $12,000. Same as the 802D's. No disrespect to the RF83, or even the RF7, but you couldn't possibly do these much lower priced speakers justice. I reckon you need to give your ears time to adjust to a totally different presentation of the music and in the context of an HT system like you are suggesting. If you were comparing a La Scala or Klipschorn based HT system with what you were hearing with the ML's and the B&W's, we might be whistling a different tune.

[Dale A B]

We've got a new Klipsch dealer in central WI, so this past friday I stopped in to look at the new lineup. We fired up the RF83's in a room approx 14 x 18, powered by Integra electronics.

I brought my bass-heavy double disc of Black Uhuru's Island Anthology, and we listened to this for 15 minutes. I was very pleased with the overall presentation, except for some bloated bass. However, when we switched to another disc in 5.1, the entire $5500 system sounded excellent and well balanced. There was no bloat, and there was even more, deeper, and cleaner bass than before. And no, the RSW sub was not connected, as the salesman could not get it to work

I loved the magnetic grills and the looks, these new RF's are gorgeous.

As an aside, we later visited the THX Ultra 2 theater in a room about 16 x 20. They had the Eagles and Santana dvd''s playing in here, and this was where I was completely blown away. Absolutely amazing heft & detail, this would be way more than I would ever need.

This new dealer advertised extensively in print and on the radio, and was offering free financing for 12 months. They are also listed as offering the Heritage series but could not say if any of them would be stocked for demo.

NP - Meet The Press

[NOSValves]

Dont know how much better of an amp I can use considering these amps already approach the price of the RF83 alone.

Cost has little to do with system mating. Was this audition in a Home Theater shop? See if they will allow a in hime audition.

Craig

[Jay481985]

I remember you from the promedia line too... I know rotel and been listening. To be honest I was a little dissapointed as I did just purchase a pair of rf 83. I think you got the Martin Logan at a steep discount from the place you work, right? I mean no disrespect but that is how you were able to arfford them as they cost more then some cars.....

Well the krell tells me it is not the amp then. Maybe it was just never broken in if that could be? I am still debating on wheter or not that is true.

The Martin logans excell on midrange as they cannot replicate the deep bass notes due to the limited movement the electrostatic panels can actually push air. But since they are soo very light and stay rigid you get probably the best midrange you can get from any speaker design. Again the RF83 does not do bad at all but the Martin Logan is like comparing a Fully loaded Mercedes S600 to a Infiniti G35. Both good cars but obviously there is a reason why the price is soo different

[leok]

Possibly the 83s needed breaking-in. I've owned RF-7s since they were

introduced and don't listen at high levels. I always thought they

sounded somewhat reserved and colored compared with my Chorus-IIs.

About a month ago I subjected them to about 20 hours of sinewave sweep

from 20Hz to 20KHz at a level that produced about 1/4" cone excursion

at 20 Hz (obviously the power dropped significantly at the higher

frequencies or I would have blown the hf driver). The coloration and

reserved quality is gone. I've always liked the high end clarity of the

RF-7, but now find they have a very natural and dynamic presentation. I

wouldn't be surprised if the RF-83s would improve significantly after a

similar workout.

Leo

[pinipig523]

Jay - regarding the Summits, no I dont work at a dealer.... so I bought it on my own steam. It helps though when you're buddies with the dealer.

Regarding the Summits - these are not like the previous ML generation (ala Aeon, Ascent, Oddysey, Prodigy) - the new XStats are very very good at reproducing the low end as Martin Logan has employed Descent technology into the Summits.... sealed configuration dual 10" aluminum woofers with ICE Digital switching amplification. Flat down to 24hz with eq at 25hz and 50hz for better room integration.

Honestly, I doubt it's the amplifier... the RB1090 isnt embarassed to power the Summits or the 802D and I doubt it would be on the Klipsch. 1090 is comparable to the better amps out there and outshined by the Plinius offerings, upper Classe, and Bryston 4BSST to name a few... Krell FPB notwithstanding (a super amp that needs no comparison).

Reading your responses, most seem to think it could be break in... possibly, I'll call my dealer and inquire as to how long the RF83s have been playing. That could be it, but I doubt it as there wasnt that midrange that I remember the RF7s had... though it's been so long since I heard the RF7 that my mind could just be playing games with me.

I was wondering if anyone else heard what I heard.... a slightly veiled midrange? Perhaps the 8" woofers are not resolute enough to cover the critical midrange frequencies with ease and thus the "veil".

Maybe I would be better off with the THX Klipsch setup? This is probably the next I'd have to audition...

I must say, I think the new Klipsch Reference are pretty good looking - they ironed out the corners and brashness of the older RF and the newer RFs are definitely svelte. Love the copper woofers with the inverted dust cap. Oh, and the magnetic grills are definitely slick.

Some may feel that I'm comparing apples to oranges - and perhaps that's what it seems like, but I'm looking for an HT setup as it is impossible to build around an 802D setup or the Martin Logan setup at this time. I was hoping to spend around $5-7K on a decent HT setup and have always regarded Klipsch as a powerhouse especially in HT.

[Jay481985]

The RF-83 have a crossover at 1600 so the horn does more of the midrange now

[Fish]

most people find rotels not great with klipsch, try a different amp

BTW you have the 802D?

To each their own but most know the Rotel 1090 is a stellar amp if it

can't do the job change somethin' else.I find the Rotels the BETTER match

of MANY amps I've owned w Klipsch.

[pinipig523]

Having the horn crossed over that low could be the reason why it sounded a little thin... something just didnt sound right to me.

[Pyewacket]

Help me here if I'm wrong in any way. The RF-7's were using a 1.75" compression driver which was crossed at 2200? Now the RF-83 is using a 1.25" compression driver crossed at 1650 according to the spec sheet.

By one, decreasing the size of the driver and then lowering the circuit would they have to "up" the order of the crossover to protect this unit and would this color the sound?

Both speakers are rated at 250w rms and 1000w peaks. It seems they would have to do something to protect a "smaller" HF driver that is handling duties 550 hz lower than its bigger ancestor.

Confused...

[cjgeraci]

Very interesting observation and thoughts. One would not think that you would want to lower the crossover point with even a smaller driver. The change in driver size may have been dictated by a smaller tractrix horn, dictated by a narrower enclosure, but that does not explain why they dropped the crossover even lower. Driver size aside, the size of that horn is smaller than its predecessor so presumably that would have an effect.

I personally did not have a problem with the woofers carrying the sound all of the way up to 2200 on the RF-7s. And I never perceived a midrange "hole" with the larger driver coming down to 2200. But, it seems Klipsch did something different this time.

Hmmm........?

Carl.

[jacksonbart]

Perhaps they're just not for you.

[Jay481985]

well we will see as I am accustomed to the sound of the rf-7 sound and when the new rf83 come in and I have some real listening time.

[msst]

I don't know what Jay481985 is thinking but Rotel goes very well with Klipsch. It is highly recommended by many running that combo on the Klipsch and Rotel forums! Myself included.
The combo both give is nothing short of stunning. I ended up buying the Rotel RB-1090 after
so many people from the Klipsch and Rotel forums suggested I run Rotel with the Klipsch RF-7
and I've been extremely pleased with both their performance that keeps me wanting to listen
more every time I come home from a hard days work.

No, you aren't alone in the RF-83 disappointment. I stopped by at the audio place here after work and found they had the new RF-83 in. I have the RF-7 and the Rotel RB-1090 and they sound grand together. We played the RF-83 off the Rotel RB-1090 and switched to the RF-7 while I listened.
For me, I was disappointed. They are not better than the RF-7, and I much prefer the RF-7 over
the RF-83. They just don't have the involvement to them as the RF-7's do. I really feel that with the RF-7's but not with the RF-83 with how I'm used to. The RF-83's high midrange is missing and thin sounding to the RF-7's sound. It's very easy to hear that the RF-83's HF has been tame down compared to the RF-7's which I don't approve of for my ears, much more involving with the RF-7's HF that I much more prefer.

If I were out buying a new Klipsch speaker and heard both the RF-83 and RF-7, my choice would be for the RF-7 without a doubt. I own two pairs of RF-7's and have changed to the Rotel RB-1090 amps, have two RB-1090, the best move I ever made for the Klipsch RF-7 speakers! This combo is so stunning, I still can't believe it.

pinipig523, I agree with that, the Rotel RB-1090 is still Rotel's best amp to me after I compared it to the RB-1091 and RB-1092 when I was thinking of upgrading to the new amps but I'm staying with the RB-1090 after hearing the new amps! Luckily you can still get the RB-1090 from Rotel brand new, not sure for how long they offer that, probably depend on sales of the new amps.

[KlipsDude]

Jay481985 said "most people find rotels not great with klipsch, try a different amp"

This is totally untrue. There are so many people running the RF-7's with the Rotel RB-1080 and RB-1090 amps that I've read over and over in reviews that all say how great they are together. This is also a review a guy did on the Klipschorn's that talk about how well it went with his Rotel RB-1090 so I just think Jay doesn't realize that they do go well together.

I'm running McIntosh with my RF-7's but I have heard a RF-7 setup with a Rotel RB-1090 and it sounded as good as my McIntosh setup!

[KathyMason]

I use to own Martin Logan's, Summits a ways back.

I've been running for some time the Rotel RB-1090 amp, Rotel RC-1090 pre, and Rotel RCD-1072 CD-Player with the Klipsch RF-7 speakers and all I have to say is if Jay doesn't think this setup couldn't stun him in disbelief, don't know what would!

This is the best setup I've ever had and I will also follow up to say that Rotel does indeed go very well with Klipsch and a known fact it's a great synergy if you just read the Rotel and Klipsch forums. I did my review about it a long time ago, and I'm still happy with mine!

Kathy

[Jay481985]

I guess I will be taking heat and eating crow..... I was thinking the rotel that was a digital amp.... oh ok flame on![]