POLL: Fun with bias/voltage meters? What is your wall voltage?

[Marvel]

Your voltage isn't even that high. BUT, with that voltage and the wattage you say the pumps are at, you are pulling about 3.6 amps on that circuit. That isn't a problem by itself either. But electric motors put all kinds of noise on your circuit. You certainly don't have a 60Hz sine wave for power with those running. Not a clean sine wave anyway.

Pay for an electrician one more time... do it for giggles. Tell him you have this audio gear that keeps messing up and not one else who has bought them has had any trouble - just you.

Later - perhaps much later

[arfandbark]

I'm being objective now, instead of being a dink like I was the othe night. I apologize.

I do think you should split the pump/stereo circuit.

[meagain]

I know. That was the original intent, but it turned out to be tricky/problematic. These are centifugal pumps that don't sit under water. They are above ground if that means anything.

[anarchist]

Lisa,

You didn't need to replace one 20 AMP fuse with a 15 AMP. You need to replace a half dozen or more fuses that are 30AMPs or 20 AMPS and should be 15 AMPs.

You have 20 AMP wiring spliced into 15 AMP wiring. You have outlets which appear to have a ground and others that don't. You have a wall outlet box that has a large number of conductors in it that requires a very specific size of box to be safe. The pumps on the same circuit are going to "dirty" your power. The voltage drop you are experiencing when flipping on the pumps seems excessive - you could have a short in the wiring or outlet.

None of these are critical problems - save the ones which are putting your house at jeopardy - but all are problems which should be resolved.

Identifying these issues doesn't require visiting your house or being in a neighboring
state; some flunkie smoking weed in Amsterdam could quickly figure it
out based on the information we have gleamed.

Was the "electrician" you hire who ignored your fuse box, didn't warn you about overloading your circuits and wired up that outlet inappropriately "licensed"?

You have all the information you need and will now do as you choose. Good luck.

[Audio Flynn]

Lisa,

You didn't need to replace one 20 AMP fuse with a 15 AMP. You need to replace a half dozen or more fuses that are 30AMPs or 20 AMPS and should be 15 AMPs.

You have 20 AMP wiring spliced into 15 AMP wiring. You have outlets which appear to have a ground and others that don't. You have a wall outlet box that has a large number of conductors in it that requires a very specific size of box to be safe. The pumps on the same circuit are going to "dirty" your power. The voltage drop you are experiencing when flipping on the pumps seems excessive - you could have a short in the wiring or outlet.

None of these are critical problems - save the ones which are putting your house at jeopardy - but all are problems which should be resolved.

Identifying these issues doesn't require visiting your house or being in a neighboring

state; some flunkie smoking weed in Amsterdam could quickly figure it

out based on the information we have gleamed.

Was the "electrician" you hire who ignored your fuse box, didn't warn you about overloading your circuits and wired up that outlet inappropriately "licensed"?

You have all the information you need and will now do as you choose. Good luck.

There are zero electrical oddities noted here. No frequent bulb

blowing, no dimming or flickering lights, nothing except the amps.

Lisa;

You keep telling us about the "oddities" in the design and build of your house electrical system and we keep getting more scared.

Darn I am getting scared agreeing with Anarchist. That happens less than me agreeing with Allan Songer.

[maxg]

What a terrible nightmare that was.

I dreamed Meagain eventually did call in an Electrician who promptly fixed all the electrical issues including the lack of earth on the power point she uses for the system. At that point she noticed a dull hum coming from the system and wrote about it on the forum. 423 people responded saying it was a ground loop hum but she argued it couldnt be because her oven doesnt hum and promptly changed the bananas on her speakers, then the interconnects, 3 preamps and a CD player.

In desperation she sent the amp back to Craig again - who actually did find a fault this time - but decided to cover the evidence up by eating it. He was doing fine till it got to the iron where he choked. Dean attempted the Heinlick manoevre but it failed as he insisted on doing it with a Xover in each hand.

Mark brought out a new amp in Craig's honour - a simple 2A3 set amp which, as he felt it was the prefect reproducer of sound - he called the Ostby Parrot.

Thebes wrote about it on the forum explaining how this had all been planned by Klipsch in the first place to increase the market for their secret tube stash whereupon he disappeared somewhat mysteriously.

Several jokes were made about this and then Fini, Anarchist and 2 new guys also disappeared.

Sheltie ordered 6 of Mark's new amps and triamped his speakers - Meagain asked how this was done - in a 22 page saga of a thread and then everyone else disappeared.

Dont know what happened after that as I woke up.....

[JJkizak]

A man has to know his limitations. Hire a contractor to rewire the entire house with an increase of service to 200 amp or sell the house and purchase another house. Your wiring sounds like a mesmionic mess to me.

JJK

[fini]

Send the pumps to Craig.

[kev313]

What a terrible nightmare that was.

I dreamed Meagain eventually did call in an Electrician who promptly fixed all the electrical issues including the lack of earth on the power point she uses for the system. At that point she noticed a dull hum coming from the system and wrote about it on the forum. 423 people responded saying it was a ground loop hum but she argued it couldnt be because her oven doesnt hum and promptly changed the bananas on her speakers, then the interconnects, 3 preamps and a CD player.

In desperation she sent the amp back to Craig again - who actually did find a fault this time - but decided to cover the evidence up by eating it. He was doing fine till it got to the iron where he choked. Dean attempted the Heinlick manoevre but it failed as he insisted on doing it with a Xover in each hand.

Mark brought out a new amp in Craig's honour - a simple 2A3 set amp which, as he felt it was the prefect reproducer of sound - he called the Ostby Parrot.

Thebes wrote about it on the forum explaining how this had all been planned by Klipsch in the first place to increase the market for their secret tube stash whereupon he disappeared somewhat mysteriously.

Several jokes were made about this and then Fini, Anarchist and 2 new guys also disappeared.

Sheltie ordered 6 of Mark's new amps and triamped his speakers - Meagain asked how this was done - in a 22 page saga of a thread and then everyone else disappeared.

Dont know what happened after that as I woke up.....

Geez Max, If you think it is bad here you would not believe what I saw at the forum of the pond pump manufacturer. TOTAL uproar over messing with even water distribution as a result of putting that pump on the same circuit as audio components.

[meagain]

Lisa,

You didn't need to replace one 20 AMP fuse with a 15 AMP. You need to replace a half dozen or more fuses that are 30AMPs or 20 AMPS and should be 15 AMPs.

You have 20 AMP wiring spliced into 15 AMP wiring. You have outlets which appear to have a ground and others that don't. You have a wall outlet box that has a large number of conductors in it that requires a very specific size of box to be safe. The pumps on the same circuit are going to "dirty" your power. The voltage drop you are experiencing when flipping on the pumps seems excessive - you could have a short in the wiring or outlet.

None of these are critical problems - save the ones which are putting your house at jeopardy - but all are problems which should be resolved.

Identifying these issues doesn't require visiting your house or being in a neighboring

state; some flunkie smoking weed in Amsterdam could quickly figure it

out based on the information we have gleamed.

Was the "electrician" you hire who ignored your fuse box, didn't warn you about overloading your circuits and wired up that outlet inappropriately "licensed"?

You have all the information you need and will now do as you choose. Good luck.

Anarchist.... I know I have to change most all my fuses to 15 amp. All I could find in 3 stores was a total of 8 left. I didn't change the 7 I have left cuz I have to take time with hubby on this.... want to double check what's on the circuits etc. Will do that this weekend. BUT, it's my understanding that it matters more as to what's running on these circuits. Some circuits have nothing, some have 1 lamp, 2 lamps & tv, etc. and I'm sure I'm no where near at 15 let alone 20-30 so I think this can wait a day till we can sort it out. I need to make sure the circuits that need 20-30 get those. BUT - Right now, my listening area is on the 15.

So you are saying that this one outlet that has thicker wire is an issue.. Is this an issue even if the thicker wire is only about 4" and 'right' in the outlet box? Since it's not a run of thick wire and just in the outlet itself, I thought this wasn't bad?

Let me confirm..... It's not just a matter of the pond pumps (430 watts MAX).... it's a matter of the TYPE of gadget? The fact that they are a centrifugal motor? And not all watts on a system are created equal. Motors are different than electronics? Right?

IDK - the electrician worked on the fuse box and didn't say anything was scarey and given that such people have a tendancy to want more money.... I'd think he would have said something.

I'll try to puzzle out where we'd put a new electric outlet for the pond and have it on it's own fuse. This will be a MASSIVE project. Will likely take a while before I can find someone, get estimates, get a plan, and get it done.

[NOSValves]

IDK - the electrician worked on the fuse box and didn't say anything was scarey and given that such people have a tendancy to want more money.... I'd think he would have said something.

I think he may have been in duck for cover mode. Did you talk with him much? []

[meagain]

LOL!!!

[sfogg]

"BUT, it's my understanding that it matters more as to what's running on these circuits. Some circuits have nothing, some have 1 lamp, 2 lamps & tv, etc. and I'm sure I'm no where near at 15 let alone 20-30 so I think this can wait a day till we can sort it out. "

No. It is not just about what is running on the circuit, it is also about safety. What happens if something shorts out? You burn up the wiring before the fuse. Burning up the wiring might take your house along with it.

"I need to make sure the circuits that need 20-30 get those."

No!

You need to make sure the fuse is the proper size for the wiring.

If you need more wattage then that you need to move some of the load onto another circuit.

You asked for information/advice from those that know more about this then you do. Stop arguing with them when you don't like the information given.

Shawn

[meagain]

I'll crack open all the outlets this weekend and switch fuses accordingly.

[Cal Blacksmith]

Six pages ago I told you to get a good electrican out there and FIX your messed up house system. This same advice has been given many times since then. You seem to think that since the traffic cop that gave you a ticket for speeding didn't give you one for the broken tail light, it must be ok to drive with broken tail lights! The more I hear about the wiring in that house the more scared I am for you!

PLEASE GET YOUR ELECTRICAL SYSTEM REWORKED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[@silverfox@]

Graig

how helarious, your'e the best

[Champagne taste beer budget]

PLEASE do not close this thread. It has remained pretty much civil, very informative, and extremely entertaining! Maxs dream had me busting a gut!

[meagain]

re: Voltage Regulators and Dean's Voltage Regulation thread.... http://forums.klipsch.com/forums/1/842957/ShowThread.aspx

Post #5 by DJK - "The Furman uses an autoformer that goes in 5V steps. The voltage can
change a total of 10V (worst case) on any given step before it will
change which tap it uses.
Example: If the line voltage coming in is 115V, the unit does nothing (it is
withing 5V of 120V). If the voltage rised to 125V, the unit does
nothing (it is withing 5V of 120V).
During quiet passages in the music, switching taps can cause the
timbre of the system backround hum to change (you would have to hear
this to see how annoying it can be)."

He's right. Both the cheaper Furmans do this as I suspected. Just got off the phone with a Tech.

If the wall voltage is: 115-124 - the Furman will do nothing. If wall voltage is at 125, it will regulate it to 121. Basically my average wall volt is 121-124. Unless the wall volts goes to 125+, the furman is doing no voltage regulation at all. They do have a model that will do +/- 1v but that lists at $1500. I have to double check the Monster AVS-2000, but I think it does the same deal, only the monster will display the volts to allow me to avoid putting a meter in it's outlet to get the volts to know where to bias the amps. My chat with Furman confirmed my suspicions. He suggested a Variac and said the Furman could possibly be modded with an autoformer to keep it in a tighter range. But clearly unless I'm running at 125+, this unit will do nothing to regulate my voltage.

We even went over the numbers:

Wall 121 --> 121, 122 --> 122, 123 --> 123, 124 (cusp) --> 124, 125 --> 121, 126 --> 122, 127 --> 123. Doesn't start regulating till wall is 125.

[Guest " "]

"  They do have a model that will do +/- 1v but that lists at $1500.   I have to double check the Monster AVS-2000," 

The units that operate in .9 volt steps are pricy.  I think I paid 1200 for my AVS-2000.  They pop up on ebay often for 600 or less.

The AVS-2000 is rated at 3000 watts.

[mas]

I know I have to change most all my fuses to 15 amp. All I could find in 3 stores was a total of 8 left. I didn't change the 7 I have left cuz I have to take time with hubby on this.... want to double check what's on the circuits etc. Will do that this weekend. BUT, it's my understanding that it matters more as to what's running on these circuits. Some circuits have nothing, some have 1 lamp, 2 lamps & tv, etc. and I'm sure I'm no where near at 15 let alone 20-30 so I think this can wait a day till we can sort it out. I need to make sure the circuits that need 20-30 get those. BUT - Right now, my listening area is on the 15.

So you are saying that this one outlet that has thicker wire is an issue.. Is this an issue even if the thicker wire is only about 4" and 'right' in the outlet box? Since it's not a run of thick wire and just in the outlet itself, I thought this wasn't bad?

Let me confirm..... It's not just a matter of the pond pumps (430 watts MAX).... it's a matter of the TYPE of gadget? The fact that they are a centrifugal motor? And not all watts on a system are created equal. Motors are different than electronics? Right?

IDK - the electrician worked on the fuse box and didn't say anything was scarey and given that such people have a tendancy to want more money.... I'd think he would have said something.

I'll try to puzzle out where we'd put a new electric outlet for the pond and have it on it's own fuse. This will be a MASSIVE project. Will likely take a while before I can find someone, get estimates, get a plan, and get it done.

Meagain, with all due respect, this is lunacy.

You do not simply go change fuse values! That is not only crazy, it is dangerous!

And if your wiring is not grounded, you can install 100 voltage regulators/surge protectors and they will still be COMPLETELY useless. Well, I take that back, they may provide a warm surface on which a cat can sleep.

There are ways to diagram your house wiring, determine the loads on each leg, and also insure the integrity of the grounds and polarity throughout the system.

Part of this you can do. Part of this would better be left to a professional.

But, if I may say so, there have been (amidst the chaos) some rather straightforward approaches. But you seem to want to selectively pick and choose the parts that you seem comfortable with and to render the solution some strange discordant patchwork quilt which has everyone here going crazy, either with derision or parody.

In any case, you cannot simply pick and choose a random solution.

There are very simple procedures for tracing the circuits.

And quite frankly, while you may have the free time to completely analyze your whole house circuitry, the easiest solution would be to wire a separate dedicated feed for your stereo without any other devices on the leg. In this regards, if you want to do some of it, you could 'pull' the Romex. Otherwise, you should get a qualified electrician to do the rest, to tie it into the service panel and wire the outlet and verify polarity and grounds, regardless of how many here think they can walk you through it!

But may I suggest that all have exhausted the endless circuitous reasoning and its time to stop. Although I am quite confident at this point that it could continue forever! []