Piranha Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I wish those that do not like the VRD's would post here publicly for the rest of us to see. It's an equipment review, if you've got something legitimate and coherent(at least partly) to say about something, that's kind of what this forum is for. Scott, read through this thread for at least a few of the negative responders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 EDIT: I guess you're saying Coytees PM's came from people out of that thread, and not people who owned VRD's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I'd be happy to own either pCAT or VRD's. Mark and Craig both make nice products. Yes, I have heard both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piranha Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 EDIT: I guess you're saying Coytees PM's came from people out of that thread, and not people who owned VRD's. No, I am implying that I don't put much weight into anonymous third party reviews, nor should anyone else. I've had more than one person make a side comment to me that they felt the VRD's were over rated. I was told that although the VRD's DO sound nice, there were other amps out there (some for even less expense) that sounded just as good if not even better. Do us all a favor and tell us which amps you were told sound as good or better for less? I am sure I am not the only one that would like to save a little money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scott0527 Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I wish those that do not like the VRD's would post here publicly for the rest of us to see. There is a dynamic at work here that should be obvious. Which is why I say "I wish". Doesn't mean I don't get it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Sorry, didn't mean for it to sound that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I would say to Dean: That the VRDs do NOT slam like a good s/s amp. I thought the VRD's hung pretty good with the QSC amp I had in here, but I don't have a big room and it loads up pretty quick. I guess my take is a little bit in the middle. The VRDs have plenty of "slam" for my tastes and have the best bass sound I've heard in a tube amp. However, I'd give a slight edge to the QSC. Tube and solid state bass just sound different to my ears. Personally, I think that the Rotel 1080 that I used to own had the tightest slam that I've ever heard in an amp and a better bass sound and "slam" than either the QSC or the VRDs. That being said, I would never want to go back to that top end (1080), and since I have no desire to do the active thing anymore, my VRDs will be in my system for a long, long while. Carl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Craig: You are an absolute dichotomy to me, especially having never met you. Your posts in this thread are extremely reasonable, tactful & helpful. Yet you bash the Jubilee despite never having heard it. If I venture out to tube land I think i'll give your amps a try. What folks need to realize is I AM NOT HERE FOR JUST BUSINESS this place is a form of relaxation. You know I like to have fun also after all I was here long before the charged my first cent for anything audio. My Jube post are nothing more then me having fun with the absurd. I could careless how many people want to act like they are some kind of wonder speaker that is so much better then the true Heritage speaker line. I AM NOT buying it. IMHO total hogwash. I hold nothing back simple as that. I could of easily popped in this thread and bashed a certain poster a number of times but I've come to the conclusion that he is not worth the effort and I don't have the time to waste on petty comments from people that have no clue what they are talking about in the first place. Besides this thread is best with as few comments from me as possible. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cornman Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I have not heard VRD's -"yet"- (are you listening DWIlawyer?)[], but just had to say thanks to all that have given there opinion. This is just the kind of comparison I have been looking for, & have grown to expect from this great forum. Carry on gentleman.... Cornman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchist Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 2. IT'S A DYNACO CLONE: This is a phrase/reason/comment seen here on occasion - that the design isn't really unique. Now I'm not sufficiently schooled in the Dynaco circuit, but let's say for discussion that it's an EXACT copy on paper of a Dynaco III circuit (which I know is not true, but let's just say that it is as a hypothetical). Does anyone offer such an amp 100% brand new specifically made to match/sound good on Klipsch speakers? What would you rather have - a rebuilt vintage amp or a NEW set of amps with more up to date parts? Would you rather have trannies that sat in someone's basement for 30+ years, or would you rather have shiny new ones that will last 30-50 years into the future when used in a normal climate controlled home environment? So I say even if it IS an exact clone of a Dynaco III circuit, it's STILL a very good offering that few if any is offering in the current marketplace. And of course we know it it is not an exact copy, even if it does share similarities in some fashion. This shouldn't be a negative. The simple fact is, if the builder weren't so damn sensitive and could restrain himself long enough to respond without feeling the need to attack, he would make two statements: 1) VRD's are an extension of the original Dynaco improving it beyond its original capabilities while providing it better aesthetics and 2) the moment the power supply and driver boards were altered it was no longer a Dynaco - not to mention the transformers. Instead the builder will say something stupid like "no one else knows what the hell they are talking about" when they are quoting his own posts. Your "con", audible, actually provides numerous reasons to buy a VRD. He builds them for you, they are optimized to his tastes, and he supports them and takes pride in his work. If you ARE a DIYer, VRD's are an example of how far you can improve a Dynaco. You can buy brand new trannies, brand new boards, etc... there are a variety of "Dynaco" clones which can be built new. Note they are all "clones" - not Dynaco's - and all require YOU to assemble them. As an aside, regarding Coytee's specific needs, I would point him to pCats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike stehr Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Geez....they even make 6AS7's anymore? Do a search on OTL circuits, Richard. The (circlotron?) is a interesting one. Big beasts with big regulated supplies. Imagine the heat that bank of 6AS7's pumps off from the heaters. Or a bunch of 6C33's.... Like Larry mentioned they need lots of tubes to get the output impedance low enough to drive speaker impedances. The more tubes, the lower the output impedance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joessportster Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 craig old buddy i did not buy the ones off a-gon, i bought them from a individual that shall remain nameless unless he chooses to chime in, suffice to say they are all original and do great in the system now !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i will say this the guy i bought them from upgraded to a 5000.00 set of amps i am by no means an expert on anything audio, but to my ears and system the vrd's do as good or better in the bass department as the 150 watt hypex digital amp i have and they are definately quiter Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Did you just suggest that Craig get a dich-otomy???...[]...[]...easy there, big fella...just teasin'...put the soldering iron down! Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverSport Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 what happened to the Anarchist I used to know...[]...kumbaya... Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 2. IT'S A DYNACO CLONE: This is a phrase/reason/comment seen here on occasion - that the design isn't really unique. Now I'm not sufficiently schooled in the Dynaco circuit, but let's say for discussion that it's an EXACT copy on paper of a Dynaco III circuit (which I know is not true, but let's just say that it is as a hypothetical). Does anyone offer such an amp 100% brand new specifically made to match/sound good on Klipsch speakers? What would you rather have - a rebuilt vintage amp or a NEW set of amps with more up to date parts? Would you rather have trannies that sat in someone's basement for 30+ years, or would you rather have shiny new ones that will last 30-50 years into the future when used in a normal climate controlled home environment? So I say even if it IS an exact clone of a Dynaco III circuit, it's STILL a very good offering that few if any is offering in the current marketplace. And of course we know it it is not an exact copy, even if it does share similarities in some fashion. This shouldn't be a negative. The simple fact is, if the builder weren't so damn sensitive and could restrain himself long enough to respond without feeling the need to attack, he would make two statements: 1) VRD's are an extension of the original Dynaco improving it beyond its original capabilities while providing it better aesthetics and 2) the moment the power supply and driver boards were altered it was no longer a Dynaco - not to mention the transformers. Instead the builder will say something stupid like "no one else knows what the hell they are talking about" when they are quoting his own posts. Your "con", audible, actually provides numerous reasons to buy a VRD. He builds them for you, they are optimized to his tastes, and he supports them and takes pride in his work. If you ARE a DIYer, VRD's are an example of how far you can improve a Dynaco. You can buy brand new trannies, brand new boards, etc... there are a variety of "Dynaco" clones which can be built new. Note they are all "clones" - not Dynaco's - and all require YOU to assemble them. As an aside, regarding Coytee's specific needs, I would point him to pCats. No the builder just thinks YOU HAVE NO CLUE WHAT THE HELL YOUR TALKING ABOUT and I owe you absolutely no explaination. You have never been and absolutely will never be a customer of mine. I owe you nothing. You know its hard to believe just how thick headed you are..............I have never cared for you in the 5 years we have both posted on this forum and have never been shy in saying so. I could careless what you think you know. You have never even heard a pair of my amps but you post more frequently about what they are or are not then folks that have owned them for over 3 years. The VRD's have things in common with just about every top rated vintage power amp made in the 60's and yes Dynaco would be one of them. But it would be the last I would compare or say the amp was fashioned after since the original Dynaco sounded like a piece of crap in 100% original form. Heck your pair of Dynaco are just a small percentage better then the original. THE VRD IS NOT A MODIFIED DYNACO it would be closer to a modified EICO HF-50 or HF-60 in fact. Hmmmmmm guess who made the iron for some of those amps back in the day. Get a clue dude. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HarryO Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 I'd heard tons of info on the VRDs on this site. I was curious and for the last few months I'd considered buying. I even called Craig for specifics. It's just plain hard for me to spend $3,000 for amps without hearing and seeing them. Still I got close to the purchase. I finally got a chance to hear them a few weeks ago. One helluva amplification system. Powerful, smooth, and mellow. Until you step on the gas. Kickin' amps. Most superior sound? I'm not one to think you can compare equally. Everyone buys for specific needs or listening preferences. Good enough sounding for the price? YES. No doubt about it. I get to listen to and own more expensive amps. Better or worse? No, just different. Well priced and worth the money. Would I buy on reputation only? I'd have to say yes. I've heard nothing negative about his amps or his service. Personally I've heard he rubs some the wrong way. Hey, the guy got on my butt a couple of times on the forum. So what! When I talked to him or emailed for professional work or advice he has been a very Professional and pleasant businessman, informative, and helpful beyond expectation. Thanks, by the way. I heard about them on the forum. I'd never known about them if it weren't for happy owners. All raves. Enough to take notice of. The only problem I've heard of is probably user related and not product related. Best amps available for the money? I'm not sure. My impressions are: Helluva amplification system. A winner. Top notch. I could be happy with the VRDs if I didn't have what I have. It's all personal opinion anyway. Unless you get into specs. BS on the specs. Listen to them and Love them. Enough? Shortcomings? No amplification system is perfect. I didn't notice any shortcomings. I just heard the VRDs. I like them. I'll eventually own them. Can't have enough good power around. Priced fairly for sure. My 2 cents worth. Nothing more. Harry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Spealing of OTL here is a system I spent last Saturday listening too at a SMAC (Southeast Michigan Audio Club) get together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 Close up of the Atma-Sphere OTL amps. I tried to look up the model number but nothing like this model shows up on the Atma-Sphere site. The owner told me they were 150+ watts per channel. The system sound darn good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted June 30, 2007 Share Posted June 30, 2007 You have never even heard a pair of my amps Jubs but you post more frequently about what they are or are not then folks that have owned them for over 3 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 30, 2007 Author Share Posted June 30, 2007 I could careless how many people want to act like they are some kind of wonder speaker that is so much better then the true Heritage speaker line. I AM NOT buying it. IMHO total hogwash. Interesting... So, you can take various amplifier designs, meld the best parts of them together and (evidently) create an amp that is at least a very good amp and perhaps better than some of those who's traits you merged together, is that a fair assessment? Yet, Klipsch & Co, who presumably has a deeper research budget than you might, who presumably has better measuring tools than you might can NOT take a design of theirs that is 60 years old and create an improvement upon it? I'd agree that's probably hogwash lol [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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