Should I replace my Khorn crossovers?

[tromprof]

I recently purchased a set of 1976 Khorns. They were one owner and well cared for speakers and sound excellent. I am a professional classical musician, bass trombone, and have always liked natural and detailed sounding audio equipment. I have had a set of Tannoy Sysyem 12 studio monitors for several years and thought that was as good as it gets, but the Khorns surprised me with the detail that I hear, not to mention the huge natural sound! I have read a number of posts about people having their Khorn crossovers rebuilt or replaced. Is this something that needs to be done after a few years and would make the speakers sound even better? The current crossovers are AA. I have seen crossovers on Ebay by Bob Crites, a name that pops up often here. He sells both A and AA crossovers. Would this be a good replacement if one is needed? Which one is better? Thanks for any help.

Glenn

[ClaudeJ1]

Just have Bob Crites put new capacitors in for you. An A would be hotter than a AA in the tweeter section, but it's a matter of taste. You have a AA network so leave it as such.

[Guest " "]

1976 xovers....how do they sound?

 

 

[linkalley]

depends on how much you wanna spend. the 13 uf OIL cap is pretty darn good. crites can sell you a sonic cap for cheap. BUT BUT, BEFORE YOU DO THAT, REPLACE YOUR NASTY TWEETS FOR 160.00 THE PAIR FROM CRITES. THEY FIT RIGHT IN SAME HOLE. this will far exceed your expectations[]

the cap thing is fun to try!!! slightly different flavors with each cap[:^)]

[Dylanl]

Al Klappenberger has great crossovers and extreme slope look him up.

[PrestonTom]

The advice you are getting is becoming more and more expensive. So I feel obligated to present an alternative.

Look up the many, many previous threads on this topic. You will see that the possible solutions range from $25 to refresh the caps on the crossover (simply get some equal sized Solen caps) to some very expensive options where the crossover is not only refreshed but also re-designed. Although the price of these alternatives is easy to determine, the relative performance or benefit is difficult to judge from the testimonials. That is to be expected.

If you are still confused then a chat with Dean (DeanG) or Bob Crites (BEC) is in order. I chose those two since they both have a long history of giving level headed advice.

If after that you are still determined to spend a great deal of money, you might want to plan an overall strategy on upgrading you KHorns. Crossover upgrades would only be a part of the strategy, some of the money might be better spent on pipe foam (search the threads), speaker placement, horn updates, tweeter updates, center channels (search the threads), bi-amping (search the threads) and electronic crossovers (search the threads). Since it may never end, a strategic plan would be useful. Or you could simply listen to the speakers and enjoy them.

Good luck,

-Tom

[tromprof]

Thanks for the many opinions. I guess what I really want to know is if the electronics in the crossovers have degraded over the last 30 years. As I said they were nicely kept and sound quite good but I don't have a newer pair to compare the sound to. I am not looking to spend a lot, but would be willing to shell out $200 if needed.

[JJkizak]

One thing that bothers me with just replacing the caps---the old caps on my 1965's had handwritten values of custom measurements done by Klipsch that were not the same as what the actual capacitor manufacturer stated, so because of this I just got the whole shebang from Dean.

JJK

[Frzninvt]

The old motor run caps in those 30 year old networks drift in value and become resistive over time degrading the performance of your tweeter and midrange. You can take the cheaper approach and simply replace the 13uf and two 2uf caps in the AA's with Solen's, Sonicaps, or the Dayton 1% tolerance caps with minimal cost. Some soldering and wiring skills will be required on your part to replace the aging parts. That said you still have a 30 year old coil that probably has a steel screw retaining it causing its value to sway and an aging autoformer.

Another option is get new networks from Bob Crites that have all new parts, and his asking price for these is more than fair you can sell the old AA's and recoup some of the cost of the new ones.

The sky is the limit here and DeanG and AL K offer some premiere networks and network designs with top notch parts it all depends on how much you want to invest.

The bottom line is you WILL hear a difference no matter which route you take without any straining.

The original K-77 tweeter only could muster response to 12.5K or higher, the advertised spec back for the Khorn back then was 17.5K the reason I mention this is BEC's drop in replacement will extend the top end range to 20K and allow you to drop the crossover point to 4500Hz allowing the mid driver to not work as hard.

Your call! Welcome to the forum.

[seti]

Thanks for the many opinions. I guess what I really want to know is if the electronics in the crossovers have degraded over the last 30 years.

YES

[tromprof]

If I were to go the Bob Crites route, should I get the A or AA crossover. The A is a good bit less expensive. The existing crossover is AA, what is the difference between the two?

Thanks

[Frzninvt]

The "A" sends more energy to the tweeter and ditches the two protection diodes.

Klipsch started with the "A" Type but as solid state progessed and people's excesses with 100 watt stove amps as Paul referred to them blown tweeters resulted, so the AA was introduced to limit energy to the tweeter.

As long as you don't listen at crazy loud levels for long periods the "A" should be fine.

[psg]

No real opinion on A vs AA; that's personal. People will tell you that the A is good if you listen softly and the AA is better if you play loudly.

I will say that you will notice a difference. As good as my 1978 KHorns sounded when I got them a few years ago, they sounded much better after changing out the caps for Solen and Auricap for about $50 or less. On my to-do list is deciding on what to upgrade the crossovers with. I have narrowed down my options to the Universal A upgrade kit from Al K, or going the active crossover route with a Behringer unit. Whatever you do, have fun doing it!

[Groomlakearea51]

As everybody has said.... but to start out with, just replacing the caps will give you a much better idea of what the K'horns will do. And..., as everybody indicated, it goes downhill (for your wallet...) or uphill as per your perspective, from there!!![]

[scott0527]

And remember, everybody here thinks their latest upgrade, be it tweeters, caps, crossovers, whatever, is the greatest. Me included.

So how is your bass? Do you have good corners for these Khorns? Getting them snug in the corner and sealing the tailboard can be a very good thing to do!

[scott0527]

And remember, everybody here thinks they're latest upgrade, be it tweeters, caps, crossovers, whatever, is the greatest. Me included.

So how is your bass? Do you have good corners for these Khorns? Getting them snug in the corner and sealing the tailboard can be a very good thing to do!

[tromprof]

Thanks again for all the advice. I do have a great room with corners perfect for the horns, and they really sound fantastic. I have already got a nice kit for sealing the tailboards, though I haven't yet found the time to install them. I think I will probably get the AA crossover from Crites (it can be switched to be an A or AA) just to be on the safe side (young kids), but I am not in a big hurry. I am following an auction for a used set of AA crossovers on Ebay and they seem to sell for a pretty good price which would make the purchase of new crossovers easier. I have also read a little about ALK crossovers which seem very expensive compared to the Crites crossovers. What is the difference between them?

Thanks again.

G

[Coytee]

And remember, everybody here thinks their latest upgrade, be it tweeters, caps, crossovers, whatever, is the greatest. Me included.

So how is your bass? Do you have good corners for these Khorns? Getting them snug in the corner and sealing the tailboard can be a very good thing to do!

Exactamundo!!

by the way, Hi & welcome tomprof. I'm born/raised in Hamilton though I now live in Knoxville area. I'm just a skip down the road []

My 2 cents...

My LaScalas had AA's in them (bought new in 1979 by me) I've since swapped them out for some of Al K's "ES" networks. I had some Khorns that had AK3's in them and I swapped out for Al's ES networks in THEM too.

Disclaimer: I'm not a sit in the sweet spot and analyze the sound for nuances, kinda guy

So, with that said, I'm hard pressed to say I found a "significant" difference in the more expensieve networks. Now, before someone jumps my case about that statement, I never heard them in a more true "side by side" audition.

I HAVE since, listened to my Jubilees using a 24 db slope verses a 48 db slope network (electronic crossover)

When listening (this time, critically) to MUSIC, I swear, I did not notice ANY difference at all between the two but again, I'm not very astute in that kind of stuff.

When I swapped over to listening to femal vocals, the difference between the 'standard' and the steeper slope networks for the Jubilee was IMMEDIATELY noticable and it was a VERY good improvement.

I've read people saying things about "it sounded like a veil was lifted from her voice"

Well, I never knew what the heck THAT meant... but... now after the experience I had, I DO and that is exaclty how I'd describe it. The steeper slope (when the vocal was near the crossover point) significantly cleaned up the clarity of the voice just as though there was a veil being lifted.

So... do as you may of course, it IS your money we're trying to spend [] I'd say, if you're able, try to find someone that might be close by and has the steeper sloped networks and see how you like them (realizing their room isn't your room).

Also... if you're ever driving south on I-75, I live only 15 miles off it and you could come hear the Jubilees. Heck... if you came south, I might even ask you to bring me a box of Graeters...(I'd prepay it)