avguytx Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Hello to all. First off, I hope I posted this in the right spot! I haven't really posted a lot in here but the time is now upon me to do so. As the title states, I have a beautiful pair of Klipschorn KB-WO's (1978) that I bought from the original owner awhile back. I have lusted after these beauties since I first heard them at Custom Audio in Little Rock, AR back in 1979 or 80. They did a great demo of playing them on 2 different small amps that were hidden behind a small "curtain" of which one was a smaller Yamaha receiver of that era (maybe 15wpc or so) and the other a McIntosh tube amp that I can't remember the model for sure (maybe an MC230 but forgive me as I don't know Mac equipment that well). Ever since that demo, I was hooked and always wanted a pair and promised myself that I would some day. Well, now the time is here and I'm a happy camper. There are a couple of things that I need to do to them of which one is replacing both K-55-V diaphragms as one of them is sounding rather raspy and odd for lack of better terms. It makes those noises that I describe so badly on certain vocal ranges or notes that the mid covers. I know it's the one driver as I swapped it from one side to the other and it stays with it. I figure I'll replace both as that will keep them more "voiced" the same. The other change I'll make is one of 2 choices in itself. I'll either just change the caps out and enjoy them for awhile with the sub $100 expense for Sonicaps OR I'll go ahead and spend the $300 on the ALK crossover kit and build it myself. Don't worry...I've built (from scratch) more crossover networks than I care to remember in the last 28 years of being in the home and car A/V business. I'm a firm believer in freshening up those 30 year old caps as I've done it in most all of the speakers I listed in my bio for the "system" part plus many more. I love projects like that! These speakers, unfortunately, are going to spend time in my office which is way too small for them but I have absolutely NO 90 degree corner in my 24 X 20 living room at all and I don't want to built the side walls for them. It's not that I can't, I just don't want them in there as I already have a setup in there that I enjoy. I did have my 1978 Heresy's in my office setup which sounded great but now the big boys took their place. So, this brings me to my question in the title of the thread. I've done some searching in here but the search function isn't the most friendly (sorry) so here I am. Currently, the Khorns are hooked up to this: Carver C-1 preamp, Magnavox EL84 console tube amp that's been updated with orange drop caps, new IEC power connector, banana binding posts, RCA's, etc, a Denon DCM-560 CD changer and a Pioneer PL-55X TT with a Shure V15 Type IV with a JICO SAS stylus. Yeah, I know...it's not a lot and not near as high end as a lot of people but it works well for in here. What do you guys run on your Khorns? Do many use SS amps or primarily tubes? I have a few older vintage integrades from Sansui (AU-777, AU-11000a, AU-D11 II) which were decent amps in their days I guess. They all sounded nice on the Heresy's! I'm going to be selling some extra equipment off to fund buying a new (or vintage rebuilt) amp of some nature. I know it's not a lot in comparison to some but I'll probably budget somewhere between $500 to $750 for an amp of some sort IF I decide to get a new one. Remember, these are in too small of a room I know (12 X 14 or so) and it definitely won't take a lot of power. The little amount that's on them now does a pretty amazing job for what it is. I would, however, like to achieve more low end out of the Khorns but I realize I am limiting them on their space for that. Ok...don't flame on me too bad. I'd just like some input from you all. Any and all recommendations are appreciated. Here are a couple of pictures of them before they went into my office. I'm kind of embarassed to shoe them in their smallish habitat! [:$] If I need to supply any more information, I'm glad to do so. Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 Nice Khorns I would find a nice little tube preamp to go with your Magnavox EL84 amp. Tube and Khorns are a great combo. Denton, TX cool home to brave combo. I have also seen some great bands at The Rubber Glovers Rehearsal Space. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Dee Posted June 11, 2008 Share Posted June 11, 2008 avguytx, congrats on scoring the Khorns. Especially fun is getting them at a good price. Those are beauties, too! I know just what it's like (back in the day) to stand in Custom Audio and drooling over Khorns. Sounds like you've got a good handle on getting these beauties tuned up. I'd just have a couple of suggestions to add to the adventure. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised at how they sound with refreshed caps. I think sonicaps are a good choice to restore the crossovers to factory spec, or at least quite close to spec. They will sound more like they did when they left the factory than they have for many years. I'd suggest to recap one crossover and compare it to the original to discern the difference (and imporovement) in sound. This is the track I favor in crossover upgrades. I think it's important to establish the factory spec reference for any meaningful comparison with "upgrades". I think there are alot of folks who hear the improvement of restored crossovers and never look back. That's the bang for the buck champ of all the things you can do to tweak the Khorns. On replacing the k55 diaphragms, it would be interesting to do them one at a time, too. Replace the one that's bad and compare the sound to the remaining original. I hope you'll post your take on the sound. I'm curious as to whether the new diaphragm will sound much different from the other. On amps, sounds like you've got several from which to choose. There's a slight difference in flavor from different tube topologies, though the crossovers will offer a more significant contrast in sound relative to changes in amplifiers. IMO. I used several different amps with my Khorns and have enjoyed them all. I thought the flea powered SET 2A3 was quite a sweet sound, especially with jazz vocals like Diana Krall. OTOH, getting higher powered amplifiers, say up to 35wpc on tubes gives a different sense of bass dynamics that SET just can't turn out. Enjoy! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Congratulations on the Klipschorns. They are quite a cabinet! I will not recommend any amps because it tends to enrage folks. There are many great amps out there (of various topologies) that will sound fantastic. I wanted to follow up on what may be a much more critical issue: the room you have put them in. You mentioned that you are putting them in a small room because your larger room (living room?) does not have decent corners. I will suggest that you search the threads for "false corners" and "installing backs on Klipschorns" or something like that. This is a very real and very good alternative if your larger room does not have good corners and it also allows a good deal of flexibility in their placement (including proper toe-in) and the geometry for a good sound stage. Go ahead and get a decent amp, but you may get a bigger bang for the buck by implementing a "sealed back" or a false corner with a good seal. Personally, I don't think you need to go crazy on spending money for an amp to get good sound. Save your energy and conquer the room & placement issues. Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 What do you guys run on your Khorns? Do many use SS amps or primarily tubes? First, welcome to the forum. In general, relative to your questions... I think it depends more on what you want to hear. Some guys have milliwatts on their Khorns and it suits their needs and desires. I had a lot of watts available (both tubed and SS). I also went through a variety of small amps, 2A3, SE-OTL and some McIntosh MC-30's.... They ALL sounded fantastic to me (here's the caveot) "within their range". So, if you like to turn it up and knock the walls around a bit, then the smaller amps might not be enough for you. If you're happy with your music levels being such that you can also carry on conversations in the same room with other people, then some of the smaller amps might be perfect for you. My two cents... I LOVED the sound I got out of the Transcendent SE-OTL amps. I bought two of them (from Daddy Dee) and they were bridged at 4 watts for each monoblock. It was probably the most "spooky good" sound I've ever had but in my world, 4 watts simply didn't cut the mustard. So, I think you need to start wide and work to narrow.... 1. What kind of listening levels are you happy with most of the time (you can always get an A/B switch to cover the times you want to listen in the opposite arena, however that's defined) 2. HOw big is your room Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 1. What kind of listening levels are you happy with most of the time (you can always get an A/B switch to cover the times you want to listen in the opposite arena, however that's defined) 2. HOw big is your room Thank you guys for the welcome into the group. I know that amplifier recommendations are always a touch and go for many because opinions will differ with everyone and can start a war sometimes! I was just wondering what some of you use. As far as listening levels, it will depend on what type of music I'm listening to as I'm sure it will with most people. I mean, who really "cranks" Diana Krall or Allison Krauss to concert levels. Now, if it's some rock and roll, that's an entirely different story. There are occasions where I will play rather loud and the current amp I have on them does a pretty reasonable job albeit that it may be frequency inhibited because of it just being a rebuilt console tube amp. I think this weekend, I'll hook up one of the Sansui's just to see how it does. I did, at one time, have my Carver M-1.0t running my Heresy's which sounded very, very good but had some background hiss to it which is most likely gain related due to the efficiency of the Heresy's. So that's one reason I thought about using a smaller SS amp for now to see just how they react. Room size? Like I said....way too small at 12 X 14 which is way less than optimum. But I just can't do them in the living room based on how it's set up. Although it (living room) is 24 X 20, there are no 90 degree corners and I do understand about building the backs for the Khorns, but, it's just the layout. One speaker would almost block the entry way into the master bedroom and that just won't cut it! It's not a spousal approval thing as I'm single...it's just me. They wouldn't look right blocking part of the door. Currently, my living room setup is Polk SDA's and Carver stuff which I enjoy, it fits the room, and they sound good. So, the Khorns' life for now will be in a small room until I buy/build a new house in the next couple of years. I'm perfectly OK with that, too. I think I figured out from some research that the same mid drivers (K-55-V) are used on the Heresy and the Klipschorn based on the info at www.klipschcorner.com website. So when I get home tonight, I'm going to move those drivers to the Khorns and see what happens...if it works, of course. Then, I can just replace the diaphragms at a later date and save that money for now since the Heresy's aren't being used. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 Those Polk SDAs can sound very nice. The Carver M1.0 is a nice amp and will sound very good on the K-Horns (not all Carvers sound good BTW). However, if the background hiss was a problem on the Heresies, it will be a problem on the K-Horns (they are quite revealing). Good Luck, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
psg Posted June 12, 2008 Share Posted June 12, 2008 I had a Carver m4.0t on load for a while and I couldn't use it on my Klipschorns. The hiss was driving me nuts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted June 12, 2008 Author Share Posted June 12, 2008 I pulled the K-55-V's out of the Heresy's and put them in the Khorns and that definitely takes care of the problem. So, while I wait for new diaphragms, at least they are kind of at a normal state now. I'm listening to them at the moment with the little Maggie tube amp and they sound good but I'm thinking I at least need to hook up the bigger Sansui (AU-11000a) and see how it works out. That integrated has a bad *** phono section, too, and always sounded good on anything else it was hooked to. So I guess that's the agenda for awhile...pull the rack, unhook everything, move stuff around (again) to get that beast of an amp in the rack and see what happens. I'll try to report back later as I'm listening to a couple of songs for a reference point of comparison before switching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 Some might take exception to my comment but I've always felt that Khorns, LaScalas and the like have the ability to show two different sides to themselves... 1. Low powered amp, great sound, detail and all that stuff 2. High powered amp, great sound, detail and all that stuff BUT the ability to play "big". By "big" I've never meant loud although obviously, it IS loud. By big, well.... I mean big! lol. If you want to feel a drum punch you in the gut it's simply going to take a little more electricity than some of the small amps (that I was familiar with) can put out. That's not a slam on the smaller amps, just a matter of reality as far as I see it. I always liked the idea of an A/B switch so I had the option to use a small amp during dinner parties so I'd have the "spooky good" sound, yet at the flip of the switch, I had the ability to put on a movie (be it action or a concert) and could let it rip if I wanted. I've been out of town for several weeks... I need to go back to my VWA meetings.....(volume ***** annonamous) [:|] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InnerTuber Posted June 13, 2008 Share Posted June 13, 2008 For me, Coytee hit the nail on the head. Plus, having an A/B lets you have perhaps a receiver that has radio/iPod/PC inputs etc that is easy for other people to use. Niles has one for around $80 that let's you have choice at the push of a button. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twinbugles Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 Nice Khorns..I got my 81's in walnut from a friend's father 5 years ago for $1000. I am stunned how well they sound. Regarding amps...Khorns are so incredibly efficient that you don't need much power for them to sing. They were originally designed back in the day of low power tube amps...so that is what I use to drive mine. I have a vintage Dynaco ST-70 and Dynaco PAS 2 preamp that have both been modified with upgraded boards and power supplies, using vintage tubes, and they make my Khorns just sing....fabulous midrange, deep, tight bass, beautiful, wide soundstage...and, best of all, I am probably only using 3-4 watts! The Dynaco is rated at 35 wpc (more like 30 realistically) so the amp is just above an idle. Vintage Dynaco gear is still very reasonably priced. You can find a ST-70/PAS2 or 3 setup for less than $500 if you shop carefully. Best of luck...and have fun! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted June 24, 2008 Author Share Posted June 24, 2008 Thanks for all of the replies so far. Here's where I'm at as of this moment. This past weekend, I ran across some great gear that local to me for a great price. The main thing that caught my eye was the Soundcraftsmen gear. Back in the mid 80's, I really lusted after that stuff (kind of like the Khorns) and a competing audio store sold the line but I rarely heard it. I always liked those LED powe output meters along the front! So long story short, I picked up a DX4200 preamp, a T6002 tuner and an A5002 Class H amp rated at 250wpc @ 8-ohm and 500wpc @ 4-ohm. I got them for a really good price from the original owner, too, and they had been very well taken care of. I got them cleaned up, used Deoxit on the old control pots and replaced the Sansui AU-11000a integrated amp (110wpc) that was driving the Khorns...and doing a fine job. Whoa....what a HUGE difference this change made in so many ways. I know I only had a small handful of things to really swap around but I think I have found a very good combo for now. Sure, the power is overkill but it doesn't hurt to have it. I don't have a lot of time at the moment, or the audiophile jargon, to go into the subtle differences but let's just say that it's unbelievable all across the spectrum. I used a few choice CD's that I know intimately well for reference. Man...nice sound. Plus, the gail controls on the amp make it so the noise floor is low and there is no audible hiss which would drive me nuts. Here's a picture of the combo.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G.Kennedy Posted June 24, 2008 Share Posted June 24, 2008 ........... So long story short, I picked up a DX4200 preamp, a T6002 tuner and an A5002 Class H amp rated at 250wpc @ 8-ohm ............> Well .. that kinda takes care of business doesn't it ... enjoy ... mind the Tinitus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Islander Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 A5002 Class H amp rated at 250wpc @ 8-ohm and 500wpc @ 4-ohm When I went to a much higher powered amp (from 130Wpc to 500Wpc) to drive my La Scalas, it gave the instruments a lot more "solidity" even at low volume. Drums in particular were more realistic. Klipsch speakers may not need much power, but all that headroom really does not go to waste.As well, in a given amplifier line, the higher-power models tend to be the higher-end ones, so the overall clarity and performance is often better, not just the power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Matthews Posted June 25, 2008 Share Posted June 25, 2008 I am familiar with Soundcraftsmen. That should be all the amp you'll ever need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avguytx Posted June 30, 2008 Author Share Posted June 30, 2008 I think my next step now will be just to replace the original caps with the Sonicaps. As happy as I am with the sound right now, I don't need much of an increase for it to be at the "next level" to me. Maybe one day down the road I'll do the ALK crossovers.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acts238 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Greetings. I have a really nice tube amp for your Khorn's It's a Harmon Kardon Citation II Stereo or mono, rated for 120w's output, or 60w's per chan. I've had Citation II's since the mid 80's, and know them like the back of my hand They simply cannot be beat, period Some folks think otherwise, if they've never heard a Citation II with all the correct mods and upgrades. I've heard just about all of the tube amps, and not a one will stand up to my Citation II I have Klipschorns too So, I can say this all by professional experience. If you're still looking for the best tube amp you can get your hands on, let me know You won't be disappointed Cheers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acts238 Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 Greetings. I have a really nice tube amp for your Khorn's It's a Harmon Kardon Citation II Stereo or mono, rated for 120w's output, or 60w's per chan. I've had Citation II's since the mid 80's, and know them like the back of my hand They simply cannot be beat, period Some folks think otherwise, if they've never heard a Citation II with all the correct mods and upgrades. I've heard just about all of the tube amps, and not a one will stand up to my Citation II I have Klipschorns too So, I can say this all by professional experience. If you're still looking for the best tube amp you can get your hands on, let me know You won't be disappointed Cheers ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted January 19, 2012 Share Posted January 19, 2012 it's been 3.5 years....hopefullyhe found one by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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