Crossover Network Change -- is it worth it?

[Zoghead]

hi Guys --

I have a pair of La Scalas from 1980 with a type AA crossover network -- the speakers sound fine but the crossovers look beat up -- is it worth my time to upgrade to a AL net or something custom built available off Ebay?? Will it make a difference in the sound?

Thanks

[David Pritchard]

I believe you will be really pleased with the improved sound after upgrading your crossover networks. Talk with Bob Crites at www.critesspeakers.com.
His phone number is 479-9671542. He is a pleasure to talk to and will give you a lot of valuable information. His service is quick and to notch.

David Pritchard

[Guest " "]

""I have a pair of La Scalas from 1980 with a type AA crossover network -- the speakers sound fine but the crossovers look beat up -- is it worth my time to upgrade to a AL net or something custom built available off Ebay?? "

Klipsch, folks on ebay, and a few other third party suppliers offer upgrades, restorations, or replacement technology. Prices vary, so "worth" is a subjective decision.

" Will it make a difference in the sound?"

Anything you do will change the sound. Removing and reinstalling the same 28 year old crossovers will change the sound. It removes the corrossion that's bulit up on the terminal ends.

The restoration approach is the least expensive, espeacially if you can operate a soldering gun. There are folks who provided restoration services, and even clones of a restored version. The key clue to restoration is that involves original values of original componets.

Upgrades implies catching up to later versions of Klipsch speakers crossovers versions. Moving from AA, to AL, to AL3, to AL4, etc.

Replacement technology involves folks who offer products that have a unique feature such as constant impedeance, extreme sloples, low DCR inductors, extremely low ESR capacitors.

[SET12]

hi Guys --

I have a pair of La Scalas from 1980 with a type AA crossover network -- the speakers sound fine but the crossovers look beat up -- is it worth my time to upgrade to a AL net or something custom built available off Ebay?? Will it make a difference in the sound?

Thanks

I haven't heard Bob's networks with these but I have heard the ALK's and IMO they are the only way to go cause IMO the mids are to elevated and with ALK's you can lower them to a more realistic level! You'll find the bass response improves dramaticly also IMO.

You can build these yourself as well. ALK has the plans in his download section of his website.

http://www.alkeng.com/klipsch.html

SET12

[fenderbender]

Bob Crites will defiantly give you most bang for the buck an they will sound like new speakers, simply by recapping the existing networks.

then there are other options/upgrades that you can do after that if you feel that you need/want more out of them...depending on the rest of your system and how critical your listening needs are.

ALK is one brand that has great options...I have the ALK ES networks in my klipschorns and they are smooth!!! Several members have the AK ES in La Scalas and love them also....but at $1500-$2000 (there are less expensive options) are you getting the most for your dollar? Would you be better off perhaps upgrading your sources or preamp for the same money?

I would definitely recommend Bob Crites to recap your existing crossovers..(very fast turnaround time) and very affordable and then listen to those for a while....if you can then identify a particular area that you are unhappy with ...then you can go for a specific upgrade that will solve a specific problem in your system. then you could probably find a member who has say ALK networks and give them a listen.

[Audio Flynn]

""I have a pair of La Scalas from 1980 with a type AA crossover network -- the speakers sound fine but the crossovers look beat up -- is it worth my time to upgrade to a AL net or something custom built available off Ebay?? "

Klipsch, folks on ebay, and a few other third party suppliers offer upgrades, restorations, or replacement technology. Prices vary, so "worth" is a subjective decision.

" Will it make a difference in the sound?"

Anything you do will change the sound. Removing and reinstalling the same 28 year old crossovers will change the sound. It removes the corrossion that's bulit up on the terminal ends.

The restoration approach is the least expensive, espeacially if you can operate a soldering gun. There are folks who provided restoration services, and even clones of a restored version. The key clue to restoration is that involves original values of original componets.

Upgrades implies catching up to later versions of Klipsch speakers crossovers versions. Moving from AA, to AL, to AL3, to AL4, etc.

Replacement technology involves folks who offer products that have a unique feature such as constant impedeance, extreme sloples, low DCR inductors, extremely low ESR capacitors.

Very nice post and I recomend making a change. DEANG from this forum has done two of my speakers with great success.

Crites or ALK are highly regarded as well.

Almost as nice as getting a tube amp.

[Daddy Dee]

I think you will be pleasantly amazed at the difference and improvement in sound by simply getting fresh caps into your crossover.

As others have mentioned, it's a huge bang for the buck improvement.

DIY or turn key, it need only costs a few bucks.

Some people like the idea of keeping their crossovers original and getting a new pair. Bob Crites builds these replacement crossovers and they are very close to the original (as close to original spec as is possible, IMO)

He's also a good source for caps if diy or assisted rebuild is desired.

[Gilbert]

I didn't think they would make that significant a difference, until I purchased my first pair of ALK's for my cornwalls. The difference was immediately noticable in the midrange. Since then I have purchased 2 more pairs of ALK's.

I have a few pairs of BC's too, but I mainly went that route to have some back-ups that were closer to the original spec. Sorry to say I haven't tried them yet.

[Marvel]

No one responded directly to your question on the AL network (not to be confused with the ALK networks). Most consider the AL to be an inferior network, choosing instead to have a restored to new spec A or AA, or moving on to a custom network (ALK, DHA, etc.).

Bruce

[J.4knee]

I had AL's in my 84 La Scalas. IMO they were a very harsh sounding network. I currently use ALK's Universal A's and love em. If you have Bob Crites or Dean Wescott refresh your AA's or build you a new A or AA set of networks, I think you will be happy too. AL's are not an upgrade IMO. If you try to go with more current AL3 or later then upgrade or change your drivers to match those networks as well.

[Coytee]

Will it make a difference in the sound?

As you've read above, most anything will make difference in the sound. Having owned some "extreme slope" networks when I had my Khorns, I think the hard question you need to answer is about your listening habits.

I've come to understand (and I realize I might understand it wrong) that if you do lower level listening and/or perhaps closer proximity listening to your speaker, you might want to look into lower order networks.

On the other hand, if you are a more crank it up type or sit further away from your speaker (I think loudness is the higher consideration here) then you might want to consider higher order networks, more like the extreme slopes.

When I had my Khorns, one thing I discovered was I had to be about 30' away from them before the sound from each driver blended into a coherent singular "bubble" (to use Roy's word). They sounded distinctly better when I was standing further away and I think I realized that it took that long for each driver to blend into a single wall of sound.

I'd bet lunch that if I had "A" or "AA" type networks in them that the sound would have blended together at a closer distance HOWEVER, when I cranked them up I think the lower order networks might have congested the sound more than the steeper networks since they isolate each driver better than the lower order. (this is not to say that they wouldn't still sound good)

In other words, you can teeter-totter the sound a bit, depending on what networks you use and you should (IMHO) teeter the sound towards your listening goal and match the network to that goal.

Again, I don't know that I understand it THAT well, this is just my take on being a network dummy and trying to put pieces of the puzzle together that the guys above say and mate that with my own experience.

If I've butchered something, I'm sure someone will squash me like a bug [:|]

[Deang]

Bob Crites will defiantly give you most bang for the buck...

Intentional or not, that's really funny!

[whatever55]

I agree with Richard... The ES networks need to be driven hard to sound good.

On a pair of Belles I upgraded with Al's Horns, Beymas Tweeters and ES networks. I did this one step at a time to hear the differences if any. The new horns and tweeters really made me take a step back and sit down. They sounded great, teally opened up the speakers. I then added the ES networks expecting another WOW... I did get a WOW but it was more like WTF... Everything I gained with the first 2 mods were gone. I called Al amny times and he walked me through just about every setting and combination ( lots of time and patience ) We finally came to the conclusion that I don't play my music loud enogh and on occasion I listen at low levels. So with out question he took back the ES networks and refunded my money. For noe I am using the stock networks refreshed with any parts they needed.

Hope this helps... you have to be the judge... maybe just refreshing them would be enough or maybe the universals from Al

[Daddy Dee]

Bob Crites will defiantly give you most bang for the buck...

Intentional or not, that's really funny!

indeed. I've noticed Bob the most defiant when it comes to bang for the buck.

ps. simplicity in a crossover network, such as AA or A is a pretty sweet sound.

[Daddy Dee]

Bob Crites will defiantly give you most bang for the buck...

Intentional or not, that's really funny!

indeed. I've noticed Bob the most defiant when it comes to bang for the buck.

ps. simplicity in a crossover network, such as AA or A is a pretty sweet sound.

[Daddy Dee]

Bob Crites will defiantly give you most bang for the buck...

Intentional or not, that's really funny!

indeed. I've noticed Bob is the most defiant when it comes to bang for the buck.

ps. simplicity in a crossover network, such as AA or A is a pretty sweet sound.

If you are sticking with the AA network, there is a small change which can be done to listen to it in type A format. It can even be done so it's easily convertible for listening in either type. Type A was my favorite network in LaScala and Khorns.

[Coytee]

Now that we're all pimping lower order networks, lemme throw a fly into the ointment.

I once had occasion to hear the Jubilees on a steeper slope crossover (borrowed a Crown XTI)

I found that Bonnie Rait (at decent levels, not ear splitting) had that "veil" lifted from her voice that I've heard mentioned every now & then when someone makes a change. It was a clear and distinct improvement on the sound (vocals). I do NOT think I would have noticed the difference had I been listening to instrumental only NOR do I think I could have walked into the room and picked out what was playing. Though it was a clear difference (and to me, improvement) of the sound, it had to be played side by side to really notice it.

So, to me, that steeper slope (48db contrasted with the 24 db my EV Dx38 gives me) was a clear improvement on the clarity of the sound. I've also got to wonder if that was easier done because the Jubilees were time aligned AND 2-way which meant only 2 horns had to meld together and not 3.

I don't know but I DO know that I liked the sound of the steeper slope on the Jubilee. It was a clear improvement AND didn't have to be blistering loud to notice it.

Just my .02 mixed with some fly ointment [+o(]

[whatever55]

Now that we're all pimping lower order networks, lemme throw a fly into the ointment.

I once had occasion to hear the Jubilees on a steeper slope crossover (borrowed a Crown XTI)

I found that Bonnie Rait (at decent levels, not ear splitting) had that "veil" lifted from her voice that I've heard mentioned every now & then when someone makes a change. It was a clear and distinct improvement on the sound (vocals). I do NOT think I would have noticed the difference had I been listening to instrumental only NOR do I think I could have walked into the room and picked out what was playing. Though it was a clear difference (and to me, improvement) of the sound, it had to be played side by side to really notice it.

So, to me, that steeper slope (48db contrasted with the 24 db my EV Dx38 gives me) was a clear improvement on the clarity of the sound. I've also got to wonder if that was easier done because the Jubilees were time aligned AND 2-way which meant only 2 horns had to meld together and not 3.

I don't know but I DO know that I liked the sound of the steeper slope on the Jubilee. It was a clear improvement AND didn't have to be blistering loud to notice it.

Just my .02 mixed with some fly ointment

Now we just need someone to design a passive with an extreme slope...If it can be done..

[fenderbender]

Well as long as the fly is stuck....I do love my ALK ES on my Klipschorns.....they are very very smooth....Sorry DeanG...I just haven't any hands on with your networks.....

[mark1101]

ALK Passive networks with extreme slope for Jubs? They are on the street. I have had them for quite some time.