seti Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Dammit. We need some more info here. You guys drop a beauty bomb on us w/o details. I would reallyreallyreallyreally like to know this Martinelli/Jube setup. Driver and passive info????? jc Dude I am still droooling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Mike K, Has played the piano since five,,, Loves to go to live concerts,,, He,s a professional,,and so are his friends,, I trust his ear, I too like the Martinelli horns,,,Very well made with perfectly matched pair of horns,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvel Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 How long has the Martinelli website been offline with just an email link? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 I haven't heard the 902 combo but would like to. Well, you have an open invitation anytime that you are near the St. Louis area to hear my unique setup and see if Maron's comments are justified. I would be curious about your impression especially since you've also heard the Jubs. Of course, everyone else also has that standing invitation. Its all about the sound. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 The fellow I sold my Jubilees to is extremely happy with them. He has AK-3 Klipschorns in the same room and says the improvement is significant. I think the 402/69 combination is outstanding, but it is very unforgiving with poor source material. The problem with audio forums is that everyone is an expert, which is why I have always made an effort to try things for myself. Experience has shown me that as well intentioned most are, they are often wrong. Exactly, that is why everyone should hear the 902/Trachorn combination before commenting on it. I cannot wait to hear a pair of Jubs with the K402 tops. They should be a significant improvement over the AK-3 Klipschorns given that we are talking about AK-3s............. Excuse me while I go back to droolin' over the pic of the Martinelli with the two inch throat sitting on top of that gorgeous Jub bass bin. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Mike is using the Beyma CP750ND on the Martinelli horns. He has been using these same mid horns with Martinelli/Beyma tweeter horns on top of Khorn bass bins for quite a while. He described the current Jub setup as the smoothest speaker he's ever heard. He has a purpose-built room, he's meticulous with wiring and electronics, he understands and uses room treatments to tune-in his systems, and he has loads of experience with horn-loaded loudspeakers. I would wager it would take him about two minutes to figure out if he didn't like a particular horn. Giving it a full thirty was being nice. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted October 22, 2008 Share Posted October 22, 2008 Mike is using the Beyma CP750ND on the Martinelli horns. He has been using these same mid horns with Martinelli/Beyma tweeter horns on top of Khorn bass bins for quite a while. He described the current Jub setup as the smoothest speaker he's ever heard. He has a purpose-built room, he's meticulous with wiring and electronics, he understands and uses room treatments to tune-in his systems, and he has loads of experience with horn-loaded loudspeakers. I would wager it would take him about two minutes to figure out if he didn't like a particular horn. Giving it a full thirty was being nice. Greg Michael Klementovich, co-author of the Paul W. Klipsch biography, correct? https://www.alibris.com/search/books/qwork/5022861/used/Paul%20Wilbur%20Klipsch%20the%20Life...%20the%20Legend I need to meet him and pick his brain for awhile. Would be tons of fun....................Ahem, Maron.................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I haven't heard the 902 combo but would like to. Well, you have an open invitation anytime that you are near the St. Louis area to hear my unique setup and see if Maron's comments are justified. I would be curious about your impression especially since you've also heard the Jubs. Of course, everyone else also has that standing invitation. Its all about the sound. Carl. Thanks. I haven't been to St.Louis in ages but I had fun last time I was there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 he understands and uses room treatments to tune-in his systems Just outta curiosity, what kind of room treatment did he have when running the K402? Was it changed to account for the different power response, or was the treatment dialed in using the Martinelli horn and then never changed? If the latter, then obviously he doesn't understand room treatments...and I would also fully expect for things to sound totally whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Yes Mike K knows all about room treatments and is capable of dialing in any problems and correcting them...Like i said before he,s a profrssional..and understands all theary of room treatments,, Home or auditorium. He,s not some kid out of school. He,s also an acomplished musician,,, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 So did he make changes or not? It's really quite simple. I'm not interested in sheep-accreditations of some stupid image. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark1101 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 So can someone describe the system that was no good within 30 minutes? Preamp, amps, DSP unit, sources, and music? So little info given but some big complaints. Obviously you guys are experts and were probably already using the newest Jub bin / K402/K69 EQ settings that were recenty released in September........and that as you already know are significantly different from previous versions in both HF and LF extension..........and with all the shelves properly programmed on the OUTPUT channels of the DSP unit, most have really liked the latest setup. Some have even tweaked further for their own experimentation using room measuring equipment to highlight the vocals a tad. What did you guys do besides plug it in and turn it on to exonorate portions of the system or correct the situation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrestonTom Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Well, I have become confused. Are any of the folks using the configuration of a 902 driver and a trachorn doing this in a two-way system? If so, were there any particular issues about: 1) high end boost (perhaps as part of the crossover circuit)? 2) "special diaphragms" for the 902 driver? I ask, because two-way systems are difficult to "get right". Some folks consider it worth the effort however. Again, this is in the eye of the beholder Confused, -Tom Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seti Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Two way is definately worth the effort. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 "Two way is definately worth the effort" Only when you now what your doing,,, The Jube is no tweekers dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjgeraci Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Well, I have become confused. Are any of the folks using the configuration of a 902 driver and a trachorn doing this in a two-way system? If so, were there any particular issues about: 1) high end boost (perhaps as part of the crossover circuit)? 2) "special diaphragms" for the 902 driver? I ask, because two-way systems are difficult to "get right". Some folks consider it worth the effort however. Again, this is in the eye of the beholder Confused, -Tom Confused? Betcha we can clear that right up. [] Yes, I've been using the Trachorn/902 in two-way mode for over a year now. As a result, my Beyma CP25s, JBL 2404s, K77s, and Eminence tweeters that I have played around with up front over the years - all went on the shelf. Although I still run some tweeters in the rest of my 7.1, the 902s with my Khorns run as two-ways. 1) high end boost (perhaps as part of the crossover circuit)? Nope. Based on my prior experiences with other Altec drivers and other Altec horns (811s, 511s), as well as what some others have found through testing in different forums (Zilch, some of the LH guys, etc.) I honestly thought that I was going to need either a Model 19 compensation-type network or to seriously fool around with a Behringer Ultra Curve Pro, etc. However, much to my surprise, the high end was there in spades without a boost so I have not revisited the issue. Others at my place have also come to this conclusion (Maron, Sheltie Dave, Joe Sharp, etc.). 2) "special diaphragms" for the 902 driver? Nope. I ordered new 902s with the aluminum diaphragms from Great Plains. Bill and I discussed the lightweight diaphragms for the 902s as well as the pascalites, and I had a number of options in that respect. However, Bill told me to try the the stock aluminum diaphragms he is putting in his 902s without compensation first and see how I liked them. He even offered to swap other diaphragms for me at no additional cost if I was not satisfied with the sound. I have been satisfied. As a general proposition, I agree that two-way systems are hard to get right. Maybe I was lucky (for once) on the first draw. Carl. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrWho Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Hey Carl, would you happen to have any measurements? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Hey Carl, would you happen to have any measurements? Well shouldn't Maron measure all the Horns and Drivers for Frequency, Polar and HF Spectral Decay (Waterfall) responses and post the total results for all of them? I mean isn't it important to know the truth about all of them if that's what your about Maron? mike tn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg928gts Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 I measure my speakers every day when I sit down and listen to music. Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZAKO Posted October 23, 2008 Share Posted October 23, 2008 Greg,,, I agree,, first trust your ears,,,Not some garu,, Do you trust your ears when you suspect intermodulation or odd order harmonics,,,? then check if its there?? Would you know how to test? Do you test your tube gear once a year to see it creeping up slowly??? You get used to something and think that uforia is part of the music... to find out the live concert doesnt match what you heard at home... and you spent $7,500. or $15,000 for that speaker. Some can spot the distortion in the first half hour in front of there home gear.... I was at Sheltie Daves audio meet with a college,,, Joe spotted a problem in the first couple of min. He,s done this time and time again,,,,, Trust your ears first,,, I,ve seen Joe pull out his test equipment...and with drool dripping down his chin,,wild look in his eyes pointing to the scope,,,yelling THERE !! THERE !!! sure enough he finds the FLAW heard earlier.. Frequency plots and charts didnt find it,,his ears did,,, TRUST YOUR EARS FIRST,,,, Mike K did,,,,.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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