CD's are so yesterday!

[oldmako]

One afternoon while playing around I synched a recorded CD on iTunes with the same CD in the deck.....461 Ocean Blvd in fact.

I then opened the EQ on the PC in an attempt to match the PC sound from the deck while flipping the input selector on the preamp. While I was able to closely match the tone(s), the SOUND of the PC was woefully slim as compared to the disc itself. That old compression will get you every time. Now, to be fair I am running plain Jane PC audio with no upgrades of any sort.

That being said, I am a huge fan of Pandora and listen to it quite a bit while just getting stuff done around the domo. But when I park my fat ownself in front of the boomers and settle in with an ample tumbler of bourbon and a half smoke (whatever I happen to pull out of the humidor) I only listen to a disc of one sort or another, either a CD or an LP. To each their own (and what not).

[Cut-Throat]

try it. for background music it's not half bad.

On this we agree. But as Mallette said, that's not why we're here.

[jpm]

Whatever. I've run this stuff through my nice Rega cdp too and it's not that different. When I can throw my whole cd collection on my iMac and put whatever I want on my iphone I don't have to dick around with cd's anymore. I don't have the time or inclination to be a true audiophile. I'm just running some newer Lascalas, Rega amp and preamp and a nice tight HSU sub. I'm sure most of you guys have way more killer systems than mine. I'm okay with less than perfection as I'm dividing my time between work, kayaking, climbing/hiking, girlfiend and stereo.

I still use my cd player when I feel the need and a Phillips turntable when I want pops and scratches.

[captmobley]

What's a "VINYL RECORD"? Is that one of those 8-track things you old guys listen to?LOL

[Mallette]

> I've run this stuff...

That could be the key. It's about the source material. If you the "stuff" you are talking about is studio created and mixed material largely from synthetic sources, you're probably good to go. Frankly, there is no way to put that in a way that isn't going to cause some to suggest I am making a value judgment about various types of music, but I am not and will not go there. However, the nuances of certain instruments, like a violin, require engineering and delivery at quality levels where CD is the minimum.

At the time it was created, Redbook was an incredible stretch of technology and the people responsible for it should be honored. The vinyl crowd (of which I am one) often turn their noses up at the CD, and that is wrong. These folks set the minimum for a realistic recording, and IMHO time and a lot of fine work has suggested that these folks got it right. Resolution much beyond the CD done right is only incremental, but resolution even slightly below is quite obvious. It's time somebody said "Hail fellows, well done!" to the Redbook originators who risked their necks unnecessarily for quality in a market that really didn't care, any more than it does now.

As to "...when I want pops and scratches." I can't even figure out how to comment. One of my favorite recordings is mostly "pops and scratches" as it apparently had a rough first 70 years before I got it 20 years ago. Even then, the engineering, presense, and muscianship of the Paul Whiteman Orchestra with George Gershwin at the piano recording of of "Rhapsody in Blue" is simply transcendent. I'd send you an MP3 but why bother, as the "in your face" bass saxophone wouldn't be "in your face" anymore as 78rpm carries significantly more information when well engineered that an MP3 even after nearly 90 years of play. Granted, an MP3 will sound precisely like it does today in 90 years. HooWAH!

So I am looking at what I've written and it still appears I am saying "you are wrong, quit doing that!."

I am NOT. If you are enjoying your system you are 100% in the right and don't change a thing. But there are 15 centuries of music, most of which requires near perfection of reproduction to fully appreciate which means compression is not an option.

Now, I will say something that IS an opinion: I do not believe there is any reason whatsover to compress music. Memory and storage are cheap. Compression is a choice. I choose not to.

Dave

[maxg]

The issue is that when you have a shot of the whole stage and someone is singing far right, for example, the image of the singer is to the edge of the TV - but the sound is another 3 feet right of him/her. I find that to be quite disorientating.

That's why some AV experts recommend placing the main speakers fairly close to the TV, so that the width of the soundstage approximates the width of the screen, so your attention is not pulled away from the action on the screen.

If you spend most of your listening time watching operas and concerts, it might be worth placing your main speakers closer to the TV.

How true! It's so "cheating", but it really works!!! The "centers" are L/R, and the flankers are hooked to the surround front and surround rear outputs. AVR is set to "all channel stereo" and the "flankers" are then adjusted. Don't have any place to put "real" surround speakers, and I'm not sellin' my Cornwalls!!! LOLOL!!!

OT:

Grooms, have you tried stacking your CW flanks Tweet to Tweet?

tc

Not really an option for my unless I put the speakers on wheels and move a lot of stuff to allow it. The speakers are positoned for the best possible sound - at 2,65 metres apart. This fills the room and provides that 3d wall of sound I think we are all looking for.

What does work a whole lot better is to use the projector on the rear wall - that provides an image that just about makes it to the speakers and the sound and video are therefore geographically synced.

The problem with that solution is SWMBO ain't crazy about the wires trailing across the floor on a permanent basis and setting the thing up from scratch each time is too much of a PITA even for me.

Faced with that kind of investment in effort I generally just end up slinging a record on the TT - sounds so much better anyway.

[Groomlakearea51]

Grooms, have you tried stacking your CW flanks Tweet to Tweet? tc

Tried that once; works well at "appreciable" volumes, but the living room has vaulted ceiling sloping to the right and the bass sounded "funny" and uneven, so I left them as they are.

[russ69]

However, the nuances of certain instruments, like a violin, require engineering and delivery at quality levels where CD is the minimum.

I'm 100 percent behind this statement. The minimum playback system always being the best commonly available technology. That's Vinyl and CD's right now.

Thanx, Russ

[mowntnbkr]

I buy CD's, upload them to iTunes via applelossless, then put them on my iPod. After that I put the iPod into my Wadia 170i. Then output the wadia into a PSaudio DLIII (stage IV mod by cullen) and into my C220 and it sounds absolutely wonderful. I get to listen to music all day long without having to change CD's, and my CD's don't get used all that much. I have an iPod for each genre, one for classical, rock, and then one for alternative. So whatever my mood I just put that corresponding iPod in and I am as happy as a clam.

Sam

[Mallette]

I've never used nor do I know anything about the Ipod. As soon as flash memory got cheap I just carried music on chips and saw no reason to spend a bunch of money on a chip player as I have had computers in my systems since way before it was cool. Of course, one occasionally wound up somewhere with no way to play from a chip.

Korg MR1 to the rescue. About the same price as the high end Apple stuff, but SACD resolution and the ability to plug in mikes for impromptu recording on the fly.

BTW, early on I found that the 2.8mhz, 1 bit resolution is the "universal" resolution. When transcoding to lower PCM rates, like CD, the division of 2.8 million eliminates (at least to my ears) the artifacting from downsampling that plagues non-even transcoding with PCM. Happy, happy.

It's the audiophile Ipod, IMHO, and I don't leave home without it.

Dave

PS - The 20gb drive can be a little limiting for packing a large amount of uncompressed material, and I've not attempted to replace it with a bigger one. However, I use MS Synctoy to change out various "loads" very easily when necessary.

[Marvel]

At the time it was created, Redbook was an incredible stretch of technology and the people responsible for it should be honored. The vinyl crowd (of which I am one) often turn their noses up at the CD, and that is wrong. These folks set the minimum for a realistic recording, and IMHO time and a lot of fine work has suggested that these folks got it right. Resolution much beyond the CD done right is only incremental, but resolution even slightly below is quite obvious. It's time somebody said "Hail fellows, well done!" to the Redbook originators who risked their necks unnecessarily for quality in a market that really didn't care, any more than it does now.

Here, here! I'll lift a glass to that... When CD's are recorded correctly, they can be absolutely stunning, and sound every bit as good or better than vinyl. (of course, that is just MY opinion...blah, blah, blah...)

Bruce

[muel]

" ... One of my favorite recordings is mostly "pops and scratches" as it apparently had a rough first 70 years before I got it 20 years ago. Even then, the engineering, presense, and muscianship of the Paul Whiteman Orchestra with George Gershwin at the piano recording of of "Rhapsody in Blue" is simply transcendent. I'd send you an MP3 but why bother, as the "in your face" bass saxophone wouldn't be "in your face" anymore as 78rpm carries significantly more information when well engineered that an MP3 even after nearly 90 years of play. ...Dave "

Hey Mallette! I'd love to hear a high res 24/88.2 recording of that version of "Rhapsody in Blue"!

((ion (24/88.2)

[emmvette]

I'm still using CD's and this thread is starting to make me feel old. Com'on guys, I was feeling good about just pitching the cassettes! [*-)]

[DU73]

and i just brought my first dedicated cd player.. i was happy... up until now....

[RT FAN]

It certainly sounds like the Original Poster of this thread has an excellent stereo and if the convenience of using MP3's coupled with a nominal loss of sonic quality is a winning situation for him, who am I to criticize his choices? I bet it sounds better than the vast majority of the stereo rigs in the country.

From my own personal experience I hooked my Ipod up to my stereo, McIntosh-2105, C-26 Pre and Klipsch Chorus II speakers, and noticed a 5-10% decline in sound quality compared to cds played throught the same rig. Now my files were not Loseless, just whatever the standard conversion that Itunes uses. So for me it didn't work, but then again I think well recorded cds sound good, and yes, I have had my hearing checked recently and the audiologist was impressed by my test scores. The wife doesn't understand how this is possible since I somehow miss some of the things she tells me. [*-)]

[Mallette]

>...nominal loss of sonic quality is a winning situation for him...

As I tried to make clear in my reply, it is not a matter of criticism. The loss is hardly nominal. If one is a lover of chamber music or violin concertos, every fiddle from a green shellaced cajun Orange Blossom Special to a Stradivarious sounds pretty much the same with any amount of compression. Punk Rock (which I relish, BTW) won't change a whole lot.

The problem is the inverse of the disease that can get one by listening to various tubes or capacitors. You become conditioned and may get to where you here only tubes or capacitors and have to really concentrate to hear the Beethoven. In the case of a constant diet of compresssed music, you can get used to and comfortable with the sound and lose the ability to discriminate.

Not that there is anything wrong with that! It can save you a lot of money if you sell your high end gear and get some nice little Bose satellites or whatever.

None of the above will happen to everyone, but it will happen to some. And I'll emphasize there is nothing wrong with it. After all, 99 percent of the population is happy as a pig in a slop trough listening to Bon Jovi on laptop speakers...including some of my best friends and family.

Bleeding edge fidelity is a choice. Mine was made by the type of music I was born loving and wound up getting extended to the music I've come to love, even some types where it isn't really necessary. Others come to it by other means. The vast majority don't come to our table at all.

As the lated, lamented Pogo the Possum once said "You pays your dollar and takes your choice."

Dave

[Yukon Jackass]

MP3s are for the masses.

If you save your CDs as WAV files, it's a whole different story.

[Yukon Jackass]

Wow, I plan on doing the same thing - WAV or Apple Lossless iTunes collection to the iPod. IPod to the Wadia. Wadia to an economy Musical Fidelity DAC. DAC to the amp (TBD). Amp to a pair of Heresy IIIs (!).

An iPod for each genre! Very cool.

[LarryC]

As I tried to make clear in my reply, it is not a matter of criticism. The loss is hardly nominal. If one is a lover of chamber music or violin concertos, every fiddle from a green shellaced cajun Orange Blossom Special to a Stradivarious sounds pretty much the same with any amount of compression. Punk Rock (which I relish, BTW) won't change a whole lot.

The problem is the inverse of the disease that can get one by listening to various tubes or capacitors. You become conditioned and may get to where you here only tubes or capacitors and have to really concentrate to hear the Beethoven. In the case of a constant diet of compresssed music, you can get used to and comfortable with the sound and lose the ability to discriminate.

[Y]

[RT FAN]

Mallette, I agree with your points and I was refering to "his" ears when I said it was a "nominal loss". I listened to Mp3's on my stereo and it sounded like someone had thrown a Dolby switch onto the music. Muddy at best. I would imagine to you, someone who has done extensive recording and studio work, the compression rates are unmusical at best. Especially when it comes to classical music, which I find to be the most demanding form of music, on both the system and one's own ears.

Me, I'm going retro and just bought a Dual CS-5000 Turntable to start playing my old LP's that I haven't listened to in years. I'll see for myself if the warm/analog sound of which I have heard is present in my vinyl collection. [Y]