rigma Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Does anyone else not think it is so wrong for someone to copy a companies product then try to sell it on that companies forum? It is a shame the world has come to the point that some people will do anything for a buck no matter how unethical. rigma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W. Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 Rigma, I couldn't agree with you more! Nothing about this can be considered ethical, yet there are many who are blind to ethics in today's world. It's time for some serious soul searching... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 13, 2011 Share Posted May 13, 2011 rigma Then he tries to moderate the forum as if it was his......be it known to all...the next time he insults a fellow forum member who is just expressing an opinion, I will request the subject ID to be suspended on the grounds of misconduct. So if one were smart...one should tread lightly in pastures involved in hen house raids. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny's Jill Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I have considerable respect for someone who does restorations as fine as greg but that respect was quickly negated by choosing to clone Klipsch products. I still think gregs work is fantastic and hope to see an original design some day. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joshnich Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 i know it would be smart to just let this die........but greg did not promote these. a guy that bought them did. and for what it is worth i am not sure when or where he insulted anyone or acted like the moderator. just saying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coytee Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 he said it looks like a La Scala II and will go lower than an original La Scala not lower than the LS II. I know what he said....he said it sounds deeper to him....thats fine....we are all entitled to an opinion Not arguing, just trying to make sure all are on same page I'm the one that said that "I agree that it looks more like a LaScala II. That means it will sound deeper than an original LaScala..." Yes it's my opinion and I stand by it. Although the LaScala II doesn't HAVE any deeper bass, the evident sound of it is revealed by taming the sidewalls on the original LaScala. I talked about this specifically with Jim Hunter. He pointed out that they both have the same depth of output but the sidewalls resonating on the originals masks/destroys the sound of the depth. He went on to say that any original can be made to sound similar (in depth) to the LaScala II's by stiffening the sidewalls. ......he also said the dimensions are almost identical to a LaScala II, I agree with that...is a very good appearance copy. You say "he also said" and I think it was Greg that said this, not me. Greg said " In fact, the dimensions of the bass horn is almost identical." It's only because of these to comments seeming to be linked to one person that I'm clarifying this. Maybe you mixed something up, maybe you know this and I'm missing something. Just trying to clarify. [] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevinmi Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Beautiful speakers! Who would've thought someone could take an industrial PA looking speaker design and turn it into a work of art? I bet they sound as good as they look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 His restoration work does look really good. I have from time to time thought about what Greg could do with my set of Belle Klipsch, because it's one of few substantial upgrades I could realistically USE. Can't have KHorns/Jubs - but the Belles will always be flexible enough in placement that I could live with them in most dwellings - and with the aethetics my wife and I LOVE. Just not in the budget, though.....but I must admit - I have read Greg's pages on occasion[] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest " " Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Beautiful speakers! Who would've thought someone could take an industrial PA looking speaker design and turn it into a work of art? I bet they sound as good as they look! That's exactly what wS done with the LaScala II and copied here . Nicely copied, but still a copy in appearance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Yes it's my opinion and I stand by it. Although the LaScala II doesn't HAVE any deeper bass, the evident sound of it is revealed by taming the sidewalls on the original LaScala. I talked about this specifically with Jim Hunter. He pointed out that they both have the same depth of output but the sidewalls resonating on the originals masks/destroys the sound of the depth. He went on to say that any original can be made to sound similar (in depth) to the LaScala II's by stiffening the sidewalls. Speakerfritz is correct when he mentioned the balancing network as an important part of what gives the perception of extended bass (along with the improved control of side wall resonances) in the LaScalla ll. Coytee when the LaScalla ll and 60th Anniversary Klipschorn cabinets were redesigned Hunter and Mark commented that they also required the balancing networks to be revised to make the most of these changes. mike tn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Does anyone else not think it is so wrong for someone to copy a companies product then try to sell it on that companies forum? It is a shame the world has come to the point that some people will do anything for a buck no matter how unethical. rigma Add me to the " it is so wrong " list rigma..! mike tn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rigma Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 i know it would be smart to just let this die........but greg did not promote these. a guy that bought them did. and for what it is worth i am not sure when or where he insulted anyone or acted like the moderator. just saying In all due respect Josh, his post on page 1 including a link to his website is promoting anyway you look at it. Klipsch has worked for 60 years and built a faithful following. To come hear and try to take advantage of their work for personal gain is stealing imo, and no different than any other common thief. rigma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheric Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Wow! I just looked at the price ... almost $8000.00 for a pair plus shipping! For that kind of money, I want the real thing, no Xerox copies. I must admit though, like Xerox machines, duplicates sometimes look better than originals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 In before the Lock! Dennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheric Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 In all due respect Josh, his post on page 1 including a link to his website is promoting anyway you look at it. Klipsch has worked for 60 years and built a faithful following. To come hear and try to take advantage of their work for personal gain is stealing imo, and no different than any other common thief. rigma I don't have a horse in the race, but thought I'd jump in before the lock myself. Calling someone a common thief is certainly a strong accusation. The problem is that all these 'mods' and 'improvements' have been on a slippery slope for a long time. Many times I see improved crossover threads that use the original Klipsch diagrams as a basis for the 'new' design. Is that 'stealing' too? How about the many guys who have made a clone of the Jub? Is that stealing? Whether for personal gain or not, it is a copy of one of Klipsch's current designs. One could argue that a dedicated Klipsch follower would pay for the Klipsch product, rather than copy it. Also, I'm sure Klipsch can take care of itself in legal matters. If there is something illegal about this, Klipsch should be able to easily protect its product line and reputation. Was the La Scala ever patented? Is the patent still in force? If not, it may not be 'common theft'. I do agree that 'advertising' a 'copy' on Klipschs' forum is in poor taste, but then again I have not seen Greg advertising to sell on the forum. Besides, I believe that would violate the forum rules and Amy could easily shut that down. This all started from a speaker owner talking about his experience. If the moderators don't like that, they can shut those comments down as well.....it is their forum after all. I have found that this forum has been a venue for improvements and for general learning about audio and Klipsch products in particular. I have found Klipsch's more 'open' policy refreshing and I would guess it has been beneficial to the company. Participants are generally a bunch of nice folks who share a common interest and it is a pleasant community of audio enthusiasts. So, let's try to keep it that way and let Klipsch do the moderating. Bottom line is that this thread is starting to reflect some sort of personal animosity that goes beyond the superficial accusations being thrown about. I am fortunately not privy to the motivations, but think there is way more to this than dedicated Klipsch followers being upset about a La Scala clone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Wow! I just looked at the price ... almost $8000.00 for a pair plus shipping! For that kind of money, I want the real thing, no Xerox copies. I must admit though, like Xerox machines, duplicates sometimes look better [and work better] than originals. PWK's quote of John Ruskin applied to the Speakerlab copy, it doesn't apply to Vittoras.It's also interesting to note the Dope from Hope article in which PWK quoted Ruskin, also refers to the fiberglass squawker and fiberboard construction of the X (Speakerlab) speaker in a pejorative way. Fast forward; Klipschorn squawkers are made from composites and La Scalas are made of fiberboard. Be careful of absolutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebse2a3 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I do agree that 'advertising' a 'copy' on Klipschs' forum is in poor taste, but then again I have not seen Greg advertising to sell on the forum. Besides, I believe that would violate the forum rules and Amy could easily shut that down. This all started from a speaker owner talking about his experience. If the moderators don't like that, they can shut those comments down as well.....it is their forum after all. Rudy I just see it different than you. I honestly believe that Greg for a long time now has had a hidden agenda with his posting on this forum. He is clearly in business and competition with Klipsch with his "Upgrades and Designs". If you watch his posting here and other places a pattern of self promotion is very obvious. I have found that this forum has been a venue for improvements and for general learning about audio and Klipsch products in particular. I have found Klipsch's more 'open' policy refreshing and I would guess it has been beneficial to the company. Participants are generally a bunch of nice folks who share a common interest and it is a pleasant community of audio enthusiasts. So, let's try to keep it that way and let Klipsch do the moderating. I don't believe anyone here is trying to moderate in place of Klipsch but instead they are giving their honest opinions about what they think is going on with the forum. Bottom line is that this thread is starting to reflect some sort of personal animosity that goes beyond the superficial accusations being thrown about. I am fortunately not privy to the motivations, but think there is way more to this than dedicated Klipsch followers being upset about a La Scala clone. Again I see it different Rudy. I believe some of the forum members genuinely believe what has been going on with Volti Audio is just plain wrong and speaking for myself when I believe a friend is being mistreated I hope I will always speak up against it and I believe that is what others are doing here also! mike tn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arky Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 This thread needs Parrot, Craig & Dean to be like old times.[] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rudy81 Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 mike tn, I probably should have stayed out of this thread, but am concerned that this type of deteriorating dialog only leads to the eventual loss of a great resource. I can't tell you how much I have personally learned from you guys, and I am grateful. I have always been treated very well and been helped by many of you. I miss having Al K around who seems to have been badgered off the forum. I would just hate to see the forum going the way of other audio forums that are now run by a select few.There are many valued members that offer 'upgrades' or 'improvements' to our Heritage speakers and selectively attacking one just seems a little one sided. If, as you claim, Greg has blatantly advertised and pushed his competing products on the forum vs. other members, then I don't understand why Amy hasn't shut him down. Isn't that a violation of the rules? If she doesn't feel that way, then the folks trying to do it are in fact trying to 'moderate' the forum by force. That, is a dangerous game because the shoe may be on the other foot at some point. I suggest that if you guys are concerned about Greg's inappropriate behavior, then let Amy know and she can take action to delete the offending posts or ban the user. Attacking a given forum member because of one's opinion lets the camel's nose in the tent. Pretty soon, everyone is 'expressing their opinion' in personal attacks. I'm not sure that will help anyone. As I said, I don't have a horse in the race. I am just observing a deteriorating situation and don't want to loose the valuable resource this forum is to many of us. Perhaps there is a lot more to this than I can see, and if so I wonder why the Klipsch moderators have allowed it. Perhaps a small operator selling a clone here or there isn't a threat to Klipsch. Perhaps Klipsch knows that their products are not so easy to improve upon and are just letting fools part with their money. I don't know. I would just hate to lose the benefits this forum offers. Respectfully, Rudy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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