angusruler Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 well said rudy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 well said rudy.[Y]It would be a shame to lose anyone else from this forum. We lost Al K because he couldn't abide what he perceived as personal attacks. If everyone can leave the policing to Amy, Trey, et al the forum can continue to be the geat place it's been for many years. If you have a problem with any forum member, send that member a PM or email and then contact Klipsch if necessary. Public name calling only makes for a hostile and unpleasant environment. It would help to praise in public but criticize in private. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennie Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 Very well said, you guys! Dennie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gnatnoop Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 mike tn, I probably should have stayed out of this thread, but am concerned that this type of deteriorating dialog only leads to the eventual loss of a great resource. I can't tell you how much I have personally learned from you guys, and I am grateful. I have always been treated very well and been helped by many of you. I miss having Al K around who seems to have been badgered off the forum. I would just hate to see the forum going the way of other audio forums that are now run by a select few.There are many valued members that offer 'upgrades' or 'improvements' to our Heritage speakers and selectively attacking one just seems a little one sided. If, as you claim, Greg has blatantly advertised and pushed his competing products on the forum vs. other members, then I don't understand why Amy hasn't shut him down. Isn't that a violation of the rules? If she doesn't feel that way, then the folks trying to do it are in fact trying to 'moderate' the forum by force. That, is a dangerous game because the shoe may be on the other foot at some point. I suggest that if you guys are concerned about Greg's inappropriate behavior, then let Amy know and she can take action to delete the offending posts or ban the user. Attacking a given forum member because of one's opinion lets the camel's nose in the tent. Pretty soon, everyone is 'expressing their opinion' in personal attacks. I'm not sure that will help anyone. As I said, I don't have a horse in the race. I am just observing a deteriorating situation and don't want to loose the valuable resource this forum is to many of us. Perhaps there is a lot more to this than I can see, and if so I wonder why the Klipsch moderators have allowed it. Perhaps a small operator selling a clone here or there isn't a threat to Klipsch. Perhaps Klipsch knows that their products are not so easy to improve upon and are just letting fools part with their money. I don't know. I would just hate to lose the benefits this forum offers. Respectfully, Rudy very well said, and yes, i probably shouldn't be posting either. i'm just glad wehave a common love of a speaker that is so good that people spend their time and energy creating and manufacturing upgrades, extras, tweaks, or whatever for them. It seems to me that this forum is a perfect place for enthusiasts to talk of such things. any product that is at the top has modders....be thankful for it. and yes, there are a few elitists here, but that's ok too, because, they have such a deep understanding of the products. if our love were for bose, there probably wouldn't be many elitists. gnat out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 I also agree with Rudy here. I have soooo personally benefitted from many of these "added modification" and "lab-in-progress" as it occurred on this forum for 10 years, and it is because of the forum collective always asking "what if" that my systems have progressed to "beyond my dreams" type of results. So WRT crossovers in particular, but extending to electronic rebuilds as well, the true value of these assistances is incalculable. That said, I CAN see where there is a perceived issue here. It's one thing to offer crossover upgrades, horn mods, driver upgrades, even full refurbish - but another to offer completely new product 100% non/Klipsch on a Klipsch forum. But then again, it's not my call either. I DO wish that there was a better way and attitude about discussing this. I believe firmly that it is the open nature of this forum (and Klipsch by extension) that gives the forum and Klipsch credibility - that willingness to let it all be out in the open and let us make the choices. Often those choices become Klipsch choices, like LaScala II, Jubilee projects, Palladiums - and others go "my way" - where I take older Klipsch product and tailor it to MY needs - then go tell the whole world how cool Klipsch is for allowing us to have this "audio lab of truth" to discover OUR own truths about audio and become a walking billboard for the company. Dare I say that I've sold more Klipsch product away from here than I ever did here, because I tend to "export" the knowledge gained here. Talking here is oft "preaching to the choir", but taking it elsewhere is winning new converts. Like friends from concert tours. I use old posts here to sell others on the merits. "See we fought that issue out and here's the results", or "here's the choices you have based on your needs". So while I "get" the reasoning on the issue of offering "new" product, I see the lines blurring and attitudes getting ugly and the vibe getting crushed a bit....and hope we can do better than this.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted May 14, 2011 Share Posted May 14, 2011 BTW - just to be clear - I am not accusing/stating that Greg is selling his all new product here, but it does appear that people perceive it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheltie dave Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 A long time ago I was a Klipsch purist, not willing to change my beloved Klipsch speakers one iota. Through time I managed to acquire two sets of KHorns, and kept both of them bone stock factory. I ended up purchasing a set of ALK modded crossover RF 7s, and they sounded better than the factory stock RF 7s. I listened to a few different highly modded and radically changed Khorns, and also gained a set of Thiel 3.6 speakers for the living room upstairs. These listening experiences convinced me there was room for improvement, and multiple routes, to implement positive changes for these much loved Klipsch speakers. I see much of the modders' efforts to be similar to PWK striving to wring the best out of his designs. The steps may be small or large, the improvements may be non-existant, small, or substantial, but the flow of ideas, designs, and feedback allow 40 to 60 year old designs to partly maintain a cutting edge modernity to the line. If the bean counters at the new Klipsch decide the Heritage line is a doddering dinosaur whose life support will no longer be factory sanctioned, some of these same modders and copycatters will be the primary source for new and refurbished speakers. Bob Crites' mail order supply company probably is the largest of the Klipsch cottage support companies, and Dean Al, Greg, and a few others all have their time invested as well. In one sense, Klipsch can come to the forums, look at what the cottage suppliers are providing, and gain free feedback on goods, services, and products they may consider augmenting in house. You need to be careful about advocating we ban folks based on whether they are trying to make money by proving product, goods and services for Klipsch owners, as these people are the ones who are amongst the most ardent Klipsch supporters. As much enjoyment as I have gained from my modded(and fully supported by cottage industry folks here on the forum) Klipsch speakers, I would not now be a Klipsch owner were these folks not habitual forum posters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DizRotus Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Well said Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djk Posted May 15, 2011 Share Posted May 15, 2011 Built by Race car builder and driver John and Burt Greenwood in 1982, this is one of only 2 GTO's that were built out of a total of 43 cars from 1975 to 82. I don't think the availability of this car hurt GM sales any, if anything it probably helped their sales. Nelson Pass (Threshold, Pass Labs, First Watt, etc.) publishes all his non-current designs. Schematics, board layouts, the works. The First Watt designs are released after the sale of only 100 units! Nelson Pass also helps people with their problems, answers questions, etc. Audio Amateur magazine had articles by Nelson Pass, Erno Borberly, John Curl, William Z Johnson, etc. Schematics of top designs were published (with permission). Did Audio Research (or any of them) lose any sales from their published project? I would wager their sales went up, most people will admire it, and then go out and buy it. Most people don't have the skills, tools, time , or money for custom projects. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundbound Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Well said Dave. I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frzninvt Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Gary Shinall did the very same thing for many years making very nice copies of Klipsch speakers and you winers didn't give him much crap. As did Speakerlab prior to that. I don't see you taking exception to Bob Crites starting with the Cornscala and everyone else building and expanding on the idea, same priniciple you know. Greg does gorgeous and meticulous work and it was at the request of a customer so what the hell is the big deal. Some of you guys need to take your panties off an grow a pair. He is only bring new ideas and ways to improve upon what is there for the pure enojoyment of the end listener. There are other people on here that hoard and hawk Klipsch parts for premium prices and they don't get an guff either . Got an issue, get a tissue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davis419b Posted May 16, 2011 Share Posted May 16, 2011 Gary Shinall did the very same thing for many years making very nice copies of Klipsch speakers and you winers didn't give him much crap. As did Speakerlab prior to that. I don't see you taking exception to Bob Crites starting with the Cornscala and everyone else building and expanding on the idea, same priniciple you know. Greg does gorgeous and meticulous work and it was at the request of a customer so what the hell is the big deal. Some of you guys need to take your panties off an grow a pair. He is only bring new ideas and ways to improve upon what is there for the pure enojoyment of the end listener. There are other people on here that hoard and hawk Klipsch parts for premium prices and they don't get an guff either . Got an issue, get a tissue! Very well said Frzninvt ! One of the Klipsch parts sellers here doesnt even think he has to put pics up to sell his wares. I never saw Greg advertise his speakers here he only gave his website info so you could see more pics if you so desired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moderators Amy Posted May 16, 2011 Moderators Share Posted May 16, 2011 Let us do the moderating, folks. Besides, isn't imitation is the sincerest form of flattery? [] While on personal levels (not to mention names... Trey), some of the "goings on" on the forum are infuriating, on a professional level, our legal team would handle the details if any such needs arise. Not saying they have, but I ask that all of you (including me) leave it to the experts to sort out. Any name-calling or defamation in any way will not be tolerated here, as usual. Side note: I'm fairly certain that if anyone truly wants a Klipsch speaker, they will buy a Klipsch speaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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