Why did I ever buy a Sub?

[John Chi-town]

I recently parted with my Velodyne sub circa mid-90's. All this time I thought my set up sounded great. A few weeks ago I decided to remove from the system for no other reason other than to confirm what I had been doing for the last 17 years or so.

I thought I immediately detected the forte II's come alive from the low end. Deep bass seems less muddy, etc. Now I am pissed off that it took me 17 years to figure this out!

Granted it was a mid line Velodyne that I paid about $800.00 or so for back in 95.

My question to others that use forte or forte II in a 2 channel set-up is, are most of you using a sub in the equation and if so which?

Best regards,

John

[seti]

I've tried two different subs with Klipsch and after switching back and forth I finally left the sub off. Then I sold the sub and don't miss it. I'd rather live with speakers as is then get that slow bass. I have heard a couple subs that I really liked with horns but they were big. The Edgar Titan II sub and some crazy Klipsch cinema sub monsters at JC's. There was another sub by Danley that was good but can't remember. I got to listen to some Fortes last night. I forgot how great they sound.

[moray james]

hey John just be happy. I was running two HSU VTE2 Mkll subs with my H3. the subs were sealed braced and re damped. I braced sealed and re dampped the H3 with high density fiberglass and modified all the drivers then put them up on 23" high stands. I spent more than six months attempting to integrate the subs and gave up The H3 sound better alone. They don't go quite as deep as with the subs but very close actually but they sound much better without the subs which obscure detail. If you want to add a little extra grunt to your Forte ll simply add 2.5 ounces of dead weight on to the centre of the inside of the passive. this will tune them a little lower not a lot but it is a very nice difference. Best regards Moray James.

[Mallette]

Subs coupled with Heritage or any Klipsch with a wide range need to be extremely clean (horn loaded is best) and coupled where they are crossed over as transparently and non-redundantly as possible.

I don't think many need one. I am one who requires one, but that'd due to my pipe organ fetish. Not even the mightly Klipschorn gets down to those 32' pipes. We aren't talking loud here...that's the easy part as any ol' honkin' sub can mush through loud bass. It's the "quiet" bass like found in the Franch B minor chorale that is felt rather than pronounced where squeaky clean and effortless reach down to 20hz is required.

And it isn't optional, and it isn't easy. Best I've ever heard is Carl's IB rig in Beaumont. It is completely transparent.

Dave

[wuzzzer]

I went for quite a while without a sub when I was using my Fortes as mains. For the movies I watch its a necessity, but for music they really perform well without one.

[tblake10]

More of the same here. Like my Forte II's better without a sub for music. Same goes for my khorns. My brother-in-law runs a sub with cornwalls and a heresy for movies and games and it sounds really good though.

[Rhetor]

I just like the extra "thump" for music, even when running 2 channel vinyl on the K-horns . . Almost always 2.1 for me for music. But for movies in the HT, I do like those low end explosions and rumbles . . . I think I am addicted to bass! Is there a 12 step thread for it?

[oldtimer]

forte II owner since 1989. Never used a sub. If I ever do it would be for HT applications.

[Mallette]

I just like the extra "thump" for music, even when running 2 channel vinyl on the K-horns . . Almost always 2.1 for me for music. But for movies in the HT, I do like those low end explosions and rumbles . . . I think I am addicted to bass! Is there a 12 step thread for it?

Recommend trying to find one in your area. I don't want any "extra" anything in my music. As to rumble, got rid of that with idler wheel turntables. However, I DO want all the music that is present and even Heritage cannot provide that for pipe organ or piano. I discovered by experimentation that, while it may seem counter intuitive, one of the things that makes so few piano recordings sound real as the failure of most speakers to handle the lowest strings on a concert grand. Just a silly few hz...but extremely important to fidelity.

Dave

[moray james]

2.5 ounces of added dead weight will pick you up 3 - 4 Hz of additional bass extension very easy to do and undo if you choose. (on your passive.) give it a try. best regards Moray James.

[John Chi-town]

Moray;

Thanks for the information. I will give the 2.5 ounces of dead weight a try. What did you use for the weight, and how did you secure to the inside of the passive radiator?

[Y]

[John Chi-town]

Thanks wuzzer, happy with the Chorus 1's?[Y]

[wuzzzer]

You know it! Listening to them right now at 100+dB!

[jcmusic]

All I did was update the xovers in my Forte II's and have never used are needed a sub with them, they have great bass!!!

[SWL]

I am pissed off that it took me 17 years to figure this out!

Don't be pissed. Your ears have probably changed quite a bit over a 17 year span. Your listening preferences probably changed somewhat as well.[]

[hugeroost]

seems like some speakers benefit from a sub more than others. I have a set of heresy"s and a set of chorus ll"s, the H"s without a doubt need a sub. On the other hand the C ll"s do just fine hooked to that big 1250, tons of low end. I"ve also heard from many folks that la scala"s need a sub for sure, and the big K"s dont, hopefully before too long I will get to find out for myself........Roost

[Mallette]

and the big K"s dont, hopefully before too long I will get to find out for myself........Roost

Depends. The big K's fail when it comes to the 16hz fundamental of a 32' organ pipe. Much as I love'em, PWK himself said there were limits in his design in cost and size. It would be interesting to know how big a folded horn good to 16hz would be. I suspect we have folks here who could make that calculation.

This is about the one place where PWK made a calculated decision to keep cost and size down while limiting the 'horns only for a very small percentate of listeners and recordings. I don't question it at all, and fortunately, it's fixable with a good horn loaded sub for those of us who want it all.

Dave

[John Chi-town]

That is true. My ears are not getting any younger!

[oldtimer]

Dave a while back there was a link posted about a guy in Italy who built in to the foundation of the "listening room" a pair of horn subs. Maybe it was overkill but with the right drivers they probably could do the job.

[Mallette]

Dave a while back there was a link posted about a guy in Italy who built in to the foundation of the "listening room" a pair of horn subs. Maybe it was overkill but with the right drivers they probably could do the job.

Absolutely. Carl's attic woofers basically do the same thing...and I am not kidding when I say they are completely transparent and SERIOUSLY present.

If he covered them, even a golden ear wouldn't be able to figure it out. A properly balanced sub is just an extension of the speakers and draws no attention to itself. I don't criticize those who love woofa woofa, but that isn't what it's about to the music lover. Those explosions and such in HT are unnatural at best, though certainly entertaining and thrilling.

Dave