Mallette Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Should be a fun day. My Rotel RP300 arrived yesterday, and looks like it just came of the shelf. Everything packed factory fresh. My friend (lonelobo of the 20.00 Cornwalls fame) and newly converted audio bargain hunter is bringing hand tools to bore and mount the arm, and then we are going to test tubes in the Scott 222B integrated VT amp he picked up the same day for 5.00. Forum member Jeff Savage is coming to test tubes from his Fisher. Then we are going to LISTEN. Question is, I don't know what to expect. I listened for a couple of hours yesterday. Jimi Hendrix, Bobby Hackett Quartet, my 1956 StereoLab Gabrieli festival recording. So beautiful, musical, clean. Perhaps the P-4300 and Audio Technica is not so bad? Maybe I am deaf? The Hackett recording, an Enoch Light produced Project3 recording from 1969, is unreal. Virtually silent, spacious soundstage. Sounds for all the world like an intimate Manhattan jazz club. Don't know how much better the SME/Grado/Rotel can make it sound. Fact is, when I listen to a great recording of great music, about the only system issue that can break my reverie is a stylus hang! As long as my 4 year old continues to come running saying "Come, daddy, let's listen to MUSIC" I am going to feel quite satisfied with my system. I sometimes wonder if some of the well-heeled audiophiles would simply stop listening if they suddenly couldn't afford their 4 and 5 figure turntables with solid gold interconnects. Sure, I envy the Rockport owner...but not a lot. Certainly would trade my Perfect Audiophile Wife and music-loving family for one. Just some Sunday musings on what promises to be a great audio afternoon. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deang Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Certainly would trade my Perfect Audiophile Wife and music-loving family for one. I'm pretty sure you forget to insert the word "NOT".f>s>------------------ Deanf>s> AE-25 Super Amp DJH * S F Line 1 * S9000ES * HSU x-over * SVS CS+ * Klipsch RF7s f>s> Psalm 122:6f>c>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 23, 2002 Author Share Posted June 23, 2002 Freudian slip? No, just a mistake. Please insert "wouldn't"!!!! Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Audible Nectar Posted June 23, 2002 Share Posted June 23, 2002 Sounds similar to my audio based hot summer afternoon yesterday. I spent all day hooking up the newly acquired prepro, then configuring it - ate up 6 hours or so! Worth the effort, though - my wife even noticed the sonic improvements Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 Well, the verdict is in. We got started a bit late, and didn't have time to do a lot of listening, just a couple of cuts. However, there was a noticeable increase in resolution from the SME/Rotel combination. The trumpet on the Buddy Hackett/Enoch Light record just about jumped out of the speaker. As I expected, it is not enormous, but definitely worth the price of admission...about a 150.00 all told. Looking forward to my Grado stylus replacement showing up. Still quite a bit of tweaking to be down on the SME. We had a hard time balancing it, the big weight just was too much, so we went with the light black one. I expected the anti-skate to balance at the same point as the arm, but it takes several notch differences to negate. Wound up having to solder the leads as there was no wiring header. Probably order one from SME at some point, if they can still be had. Thank God for Jeff Savage's soldering skills! My friend Ron of the 10.00 Cornwalls fame did the boring honors with his fine old brace and bit. Unfortunately, I did not do my job very well and the dust cover doesn't clear the arm. I am going to attempt to shim the dust cover out a bit and hope it will clear. Otherwise, will have to enlarge the mounting hole a bit. Bummer. Funny, I knew that was going to happen! Jeff noted how nice the Cornwall filled in the center hole. I could use just a bit more. Since my center tap is passive and drawn from the Left/Right power amp outputs, the efficiency difference to the Cornwall means it is at least 6 db below the 'horns. Jeff says he might bring his Heresy over to test the theory. Of course, I don't want it to stick out, but just a little more would help, methinks. Frankly, I think that is why PWK built the Belle after the Cornwall. I think it would be perfect there. Anyway, a fun day, if a bit rushed. Looking forward to the next meeting of the DFW Area Klipsch Forum at Jeff's in August. My first introduction to 5.1 SACD and DVD. I fully expect my opinion of digital tech to improve! Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 You must have equipment or setup woes to have a center hole of this nature. Properly set up, this should not exist at all. kh ------------------ Phono Linn Sondek LP-12 Valhalla / Linn Basic Plus / Sumiko Blue Point CD Player Rega Planet Preamp Cary Audio SLP-70 w/Phono Modified Amplifier Welborne Labs 2A3 Moondog Monoblocks Cable DIYCable Superlative / Twisted Cross Connect Speaker 1977 Klipsch Cornwall I w/Alnico & Type B Crossover system one online / alternate components / Asylum Listing f>s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mallette Posted June 24, 2002 Author Share Posted June 24, 2002 Hmmmm.... PWK said it was a certainty with Klipschorns and developed several loudspeakers to deal with it. I am sure there are perfect locations where it might not be an issue, but building one of those is not an option. A center channel in accordance with the 7th Cardinal Rule is much easier. Works, too. Ol' PWK was no idiot. Dave ------------------ David A. Mallett Average system component age: 30 years. Performance: Timeless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 How far apart are your K-horns and how far away do you sit from them? This message has been edited by edster00 on 06-24-2002 at 03:01 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eq_shadimar Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Gosh I am guessing here but it seems that the Khorns were about 20-25 ft apart and we were sitting about 12 ft back from them. Due to Dave's room though I can't think of any other way to place them. Laters, ------------------ ...wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world... My Home Theater Page Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
edster00 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 I've never heard my K-horns on the long wall but that is how they were intended to be used. Having them that far apart and sitting that close to them my create that "hole" in the middle that the center speaker fills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobile homeless Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 25 feet apart and 12 feet away?? No magic could ever present fill here as this is not the ideal situation, certainly for a two channel. Obviously, this place worships Paul's word, as evidenced by the many comments I have read. And I respect his speakers, the man, the character, and his genius. On the other hand, I would no more put speakers 25 feet apart and sit within 12 feet in any two channel configuration. But hell, that's just me. I find that the old basic equilaterial triangle really works the best for a proper two channel stereo soundstage. I am well aware that ole Paul wanted the long wall...but I find a compromise to work better for imaging. Then again, we are not looking for the same things, perhaps. kh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 I gotta agree with MH on this one!! Here is why: With k-horns on a 25' wall, the point of the equilateral triangle would be 21.65' out from the center of that wall , this gives "ideal" distance out from front wall...so....basically, your listening postion was responsible for that "hole"...you were WAY to close to that front wall!! Those k-horns were firing a centerline "sweet spot" almost ten feet BEHIND where you were sitting!! Another point about PWK's proponency of the 3-speaker stereo array (that was originally developed by Bell Labs in the 1930's)is that it wasn't based upon an equilateral triangle "sweet spot", but based upon a better "fill" of the ENTIRE room with stereo imaging...so...with a center speaker between those k-horns, you MAY want your listening position farther back from the front wall, too, since that center speaker will be the ONLY one of the three with a sweet spot 12' from the center of that front wall, thereby overpowering the left and right speakers which will still be firing almost ten feet BEHIND a listening spot just 12 feet from the front wall, if you can see what I mean!! And you still must consider the reverberation effects from the rear wall in this equation and how far behind the listening position THAT wall is...don't you think? If you can't put your listening spot within the BEST COVERAGE AREA(around 15-27' back from the center of the front wall, based on a 45 degree dispersion factor from the corners)of the left and right front speakers, then the k-horns need to be in false corners so you can re-direct their centerline of fire towards where you WILL be sitting when you listen to them....that is why PWK had HIS OWN k-horns in false corners in his living room...so that his listening position could be more FORWARD in that room...just something to think about here! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-24-2002 at 06:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Okay as long as this discussion has turned into a placement topic. I have a question. With Heresy I's with your listening position 8' off the wall and slanting them inward say 25 degrees or so what would be the perfect separation for the speakers ? I now have them about 10" apart ? Craig This message has been edited by NOS440 on 06-24-2002 at 07:41 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Craig, Laughing here...sorry. First...there IS NO SUCH THING AS A HERESY I....just Heresy, and Heresy II...LOL! Second...all you gotta do is point em at where you are sitting, then adjust em forward or backwards out of that corner (or out from the wall, as the case may be)until they sound best to you. Third...I sincerely hope you made a typo, because 10" apart is way too close together! ------------------ I can now receive private messages This message has been edited by HDBRbuilder on 06-24-2002 at 08:54 PM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisK Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 HDBRbuilder, Is it possible that, "First...there IS NO SUCH THING AS A HERESY I.... just Heresy, and Heresy II...LOL!", is a tad bit harsh? C'mon, many people here refer to Cornwall's manufactured (very beautifully by you and your coworkers I might add) before the advent of the Cornwall II as the Cornwall I. I think we all know what NOS440 is referring to when he writes of a Heresy I. The fact that you have contributed massively (And I do mean massively.) to this board does get you some slack, but give a guy a break. Please dont flame me Chris ------------------ http://cgi.AudioAsylum.com/systems/2235.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NOSValves Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Ahhhhh its all in fun. I can take a ribbing no matter how Petty it may be LOL !!!!!! I just thought since he was a geometry nut that I would get some great mathematical equation that would net me another year or two without upgrades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 it was toungue in cheek...but that typo of 10" was the clincher!! LOL! Actually, there really isn't a speaker called the Cornwall I...OR the Heresy I....but the Cornwall DOES have the dubious distinction of having two very different versions called the Cornwall II...which creates a number of problems in speaker identification by those who don't understand it...LOL! Ain't it funny how names get changed? Elizabeth I of England wasn't Elizabeth I until Elizabeth II came along...LOL! She was just Queen Elizabeth! Add to that fact that Elizabeth II's mother was also a Queen Elizabeth....but she never even got a number!! If you really wanna get confused, just try figuring out the different versions of the British Enfield rifle...LOL!...all of those "Mark I through whatever" with the added hassle of them throwing in a "number whatever" following it!! And they weren't even manufactured in any particular order as pertains to their designations!! You gotta hand it to those Brits to make nomenclature confusing!! If you REALLY want confusion, just try figuring out the displacement and temporal order of manufacture of BMW motorcycles since 1923...based solely on the model nomenclature!!...There is ABSOLUTELY NO WAY to figure it out except to just memorize it!! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fini Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 It's a silly response I give (what a concept!), and I'm not even using the Pythagorean Theorem, but in order to have the speakers 25 feet apart, and be 12 feet from them, you'd be right between them, in a straight line (and your head would be a foot wide). fini Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
justin_tx_16 Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 quote: Originally posted by fini: It's a silly response I give (what a concept!), and I'm not even using the Pythagorean Theorem, but in order to have the speakers 25 feet apart, and be 12 feet from them, you'd be right between them, in a straight line (and your head would be a foot wide). fini ------------------ -justin SoundWise Support A technical help site created by me and my fellow Klipschers I am an amateur, if it is professional; ProMedia help you want email Amy or call her @ 1-888-554-5665 or for an RA# 800-554-7724 ext 5 Klipsch Home Audio help you want, email support@klipsch.com or call @ 1-800-KLIPSCH RA# Fax Number=317-860-9140 / Parts Department Fax Number=317-860-9150s> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HDBRbuilder Posted June 24, 2002 Share Posted June 24, 2002 Well, Fini... It won't be the first time somebody got "the big head" after purchasing some k-horns!! LOL! ------------------ I can now receive private messages Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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